US turn signal / running lights question

andrewblackwell · Sep 24, 2024

I just learned while swapping my ill fitting repro indicator lenses that the US market buses have twin filament bulbs & specific housings to take these. The bulb holders had two spades & the bayonet housing would not take a single filament bulb.
Upon removal i found mine only had a single wire to one of the spades.
So only one filament was being used as the indicator, & the wires supposed to feed the weaker filament were not immediately visible anywhere.

So i removed the US housings & put in these entire Hella euro indicator units bought used but clean from BBT.

But i wondered what the US turn signals/running lights look like when in use, & how they operate?

Are they on all the time, or only when headlight switch is on? Are they lit a dimmer amber by the weak filament, but then flash the brighter filament when you indicate?
I could not find any photos or video to see how they look when lit/signalling on a running US bus.

Any way these lenses look an improvement on what was there, & the euro reflectors give off much brighter light from being in better condition. Some of the Hella lenses edge chrome has lifted but it adds a bit of character using the OG parts.

Clem · Sep 24, 2024

I run mine as per US spec. I have the feed from the sidelights, so if the lights are on the front indicators are illuminated. When the indicators come on, they flash in addition to the running lights.
Not strictly legal or MOT compliant, and I used to disconnect for MOT's. But I think it looks cool.

andrewblackwell · Sep 24, 2024

Thanks, It does look very cool!
I might revert back to my US housings
So i'm sure, you take the feed wire off of the small bulb in your headlights, & run it to the weak filament spade in the indicator housing?
Are the indicators very noticable as they flash against the dimmer filament, that remains on?

Clem · Sep 24, 2024

Yes, that's what I have done. The indicators flash clearly, I've never had an issue with them, but you take your own chances, right?

naskeet · Sep 27, 2024

andrewblackwell said:
Thanks, It does look very cool!
I might revert back to my US housings
So i'm sure, you take the feed wire off of the small bulb in your headlights, & run it to the weak filament spade in the indicator housing?
Are the indicators very noticable as they flash against the dimmer filament, that remains on?

Keep in mind that ORANGE / AMBER daytime running lights are ILLEGAL in the United Kingdom and probably most of the rest of the World outside the USA & Canada!

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/contents/made

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/7/made

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/3/made

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/9/made

The direction-indicator and daytime running light functions are served by a single 21/5W twin-filament bulb. The single, small, outboard 4W or 5W single-filament bulb serves the side marker light function. Hence, even if you substituted a clear lens in place of the factory-standard orange / amber lens, it's extremely doubtful whether you could create a legal configuration, unless you substitute multi-functional, dual-colour LEDs, like those in some modern cars.

naskeet · Sep 27, 2024

Clem said:
I run mine as per US spec. I have the feed from the sidelights, so if the lights are on the front indicators are illuminated. When the indicators come on, they flash in addition to the running lights.
Not strictly legal or MOT compliant, and I used to disconnect for MOT's. But I think it looks cool.

It's not just an MOT-passing issue!

The police are quite within their rights to stop you and charge you with infringing the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, plus possibly a few other things under the Road Traffic Act.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/contents/made

I shudder to think how many driving-licence penalty-points that might incur, plus fines and increased insurance premiums!?! They might even prohibit you from continuing on your journey, until the infringement is rectified!

fatgaz · Sep 27, 2024

I changed mine on my 71 lefty Westy US spec, only have indicators working (fitted new units) but do have the rear side marks wirking when headlights are on.

Clem · Sep 27, 2024

naskeet said:
It's not just an MOT-passing issue!

The police are quite within their rights to stop you and charge you with infringing the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, plus possibly a few other things under the Road Traffic Act.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/contents/made

I shudder to think how many driving-licence penalty-points that might incur, plus fines and increased insurance premiums!?! They might even prohibit you from continuing on your journey, until the infringement is rectified!

They might. Or they might give me a ticket to fix them, or, get this, I could pull a wire off in about a minute and sort it there and then.
Most likely they’ll ignore it as they have for the last 18 years.

static · Sep 27, 2024

Clem said:
Most likely they’ll ignore it as they have for the last 18 years.

Too late. I rang them up this morning. They said that they’d get right on it.

For my own US-spec ‘71, I swapped out the front indicator bulbs with amber ones.

I swapped out the rear side-marker bulbs with LED ones in red. I also inserted a scrap of ruby red theatrical light gel as the dyes on the Hella lens had become muted after 50+ years. (I might write a complaint letter to Mr. Hella)

I swapped out the reverse light bulbs with retina-searing LED bulbs that can be easily seen from Hull.

All bulbs came from AliExpress, by the way.

In the olden days, when I still had long hair, getting stopped for “Driving While VW” was very common. These days, Police are all youngsters who are thrilled to see an old bus with an even older driver. I’m safe, as long as they don’t look in my ashtray.

andrewblackwell · Sep 27, 2024

I do appreciate the explanations & all this well meant advice, thanks.

Having seen a lot of local modern VWs running their indicators as US running lights, & presumably not getting done by the Pollis, I thought it might be a feature to have this old VW doing its US thing, I would act daft if pulled, it being an import.

So far they’ve not reacted to our lack of front reg plate, which I carry in the back ‘cause it’s only just rattled off. (Also a great way to go for free in ANPR car parks)

Today I wired up those removed US indicator units with two wires onto a battery & was surprised how well the 21w indicator shows up when activated against the 5w filament. One 5w filament was goosed so I’ll buy new bulbs. I’d like them wired so they are lit independent of the headlamps, maybe on a separate switch.

Clem · Oct 1, 2024

Can we keep it technical on this thread now please.

Clem · Oct 5, 2024

I’ve tidied the thread and to be fair, left all relevant advice in place. Hopefully anyone can know see what’s what, and the potential risks.
Enjoy your buses

andrewblackwell · Feb 3, 2025

I finally got around to wiring up our dual filament 21w/5w indicator bulbs to work as running lights. I wanted to run these without needing to have the
headlamps lit, so found an unused live under my dash, & have put this through a dash switch so i can turn them off if i need.
Fresh Hella lenses & reflectors make them nice & bright, but the 21watt indicators surprisingly stand out well above these even.
I like how they look.

US turn signal / running lights question

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