1641cc v 1700 pancake

[shaggyXO]

Hi I have a 1641cc in my 72 Xover,my mate is trying to talk me into starting a project motor to work on and eventually swap for my type 1 engine.I have seen a few type 4/porsche 914 motors for sale but in need of work, originally this was in my import bus ,but I bought it without a motor,can someone tell me the pros n cons please over my new rebuild 1641cc,oh and i'd be running it without the fuel injection system,but with twin carbs.

Many thanks shaggy

 

[K@rlos]

Type 4's are good but really expensive to fix :-/ get the type 1 made into a 1776 for similar money

 

[bus72]

Hi I have a 1641cc in my 72 Xover,my mate is trying to talk me into starting a project motor to work on and eventually swap for my type 1 engine.I have seen a few type 4/porsche 914 motors for sale but in need of work, originally this was in my import bus ,but I bought it without a motor,can someone tell me the pros n cons please over my new rebuild 1641cc,oh and i'd be running it without the fuel injection system,but with twin carbs.

Many thanks shaggy

type 4 all the way i pulled my 1600 and fitted a 1700 variant engine never looked back.

 

[shaggyXO]

Bus 72 did you keep the injection system or bin it n go with carbs ?

 

[Geeze]

In stock form, the T4 is a much better and more modern design in many ways (proper oil filter, ally crankcase, etc) and makes decent power and torque for moving a bus about. But it does have it's downsides, it's a big heavy old thing, it will sits lower (bad news if your slammed) and parts are generally much more expensive and sometimes hard to get hold of - decent quality main bearings have been an issue recently...

T4 heating is a lot better too. Ours roasts out the bus and isn't even set up properly!

If you can find one cheap with all the parts then they're a good lump but making up an incomplete one could be an expensive game, depending on what's missing. I wouldn't worry about the fuel injection - it's lovely when it's all together and working but trying to put together a complete, working system from scratch would probably take a lot of ebay and swapmeet time. Easier just to pop a set of twin carbs on

In all honesty though, if you've got a decently running 1641, I can't see why you'd swap to a 1700 T4. They should make pretty much the same power and drive much the same...

 

[shaggyXO]

Many thanks for your Advice ,I am currently paying out for a respray so I will put it on the backburner I will see how the 1641 pulls with a full interior luggage n people.

 

[ZedBed]

In all honesty though, if you've got a decently running 1641, I can't see why you'd swap to a 1700 T4. They should make pretty much the same power and drive much the same...

1700 much better - I had one for 10 years - can you do 60 in third with a 1641? Can you cruise at 65-70? I think not. That said I would bother to make the change - if you're going to all that trouble you might as well go for even more power one way or the other.

 

[bus72]

Bus 72 did you keep the injection system or bin it n go with carbs ?

the FI was working on the variant but i dont know enough about them to wire them up to a bay, also if you want to tune a type 4 motor with a new cam etc you can't do any tweaking to the injection system. so for me its carbs..

 

[shaggyXO]

Cheers Bus 72 just need to find a motor now

 

[bus72]

Cheers Bus 72 just need to find a motor now

yeah good luck on that
have you seen how much type 4's are fetching on ebay £600 for runner but it could be junk if its been run hot
or used without the thermostat you just dont know

 

[shaggyXO]

Seen this one but can't afford this month,but as you said it might be a pile of

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350551816047?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_949" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[gorr2000]

yeah i had 3 1700 t4s in 2 years before i went to a 1776 type 1, (on its 8th year) I think mine was bad luck but its put me off them for life

 

[gorr2000]

i should add, a friend of mine built a 2L t4 with twin 40s and it is awesome, but he started from scratch with new everything and it was expensive ....

 

[bus72]

Seen this one but can't afford this month,but as you said it might be a pile of

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350551816047?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_949" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

its a second or third hand engine if you can hear them in a car or van running you have some chance.
if you bought one and had it rebuilt you would know where you stood and would iam sure have a pleasant
driving experience with the t4

 

[67panel]

seen more 1700 t4 s with rods through the block than broken t1s :msn4:

 

[Charlie Bubbles]

Go with the type 4 if you don`t mind ever being able to find new parts for them. The added HP is not worth the hassle for me. Though I have never owned one. Helping out in my friends shop back in the 80`s he would always curse when a 72 or newer customers bus came in. Sure he made money but it was not the engine that made acvw`s the historic vehicle it is. The bigger more pwerful American market created that thing. The Samba Bay Window forum has a much more vocal following. Those guys that espouse all the wonderment are probably sitting on their own private stash of type 4 parts and have for some time. Just like I am sitting on a stash of 71 parts. Good luck with what ever you choose. Have fun.