Flywheel seal PROBLEM SOLVED!! Gsf to blame!

[Bigbear]

Morning all, I've just refitted my engine after fitting a new flywheel and flywheel seal, I fitted the seal with a proper tool, lubed the edges and made sure everything was clean before fitting , everything went back together as it should of, topped up the oil (fraction over the line) run the van for 10 mins, drive beautifully. HOWEVER!! after sitting on the drive for an hour or so I went to put her back in the garage to find a puddle of oil from the crank shaft seal! I cleaned up the underside of the van and put paper underneath to monitor the leak over night, there was none on the paper but oil had accumulated at the bottom of the bell housing, do these seals need time to bed in or am I taking the lump out again??

 

[Raggles]

might be a stupid question .... but, you did remember to fit the 'O' ring seal as well into the flywheel?

 

[Bigbear]

Yup.

 

[Bigbear]

Is it possible to fit two crankshaft/flywheel seals? I'm so peed off that this seal has failed , if it happens again il be suicidal!!

 

[Raggles]

I don't know about two seals ...

but these seals were very highly recommended to me as better than the standard fare by Jim Clavert at Stateside - might be worth considering

http://statesidetuning.co.uk/offersother.html

 

[Bigbear]

I've got a another new seal already to go in, going to try getting it done Tuesday, if this one fails then after I've slit my wrists I'll get one of those.

 

[dustrat]

I've come across this problem before and it may not be seal. When you have engine out see if there is any lift on flywheel ie when engine is out on floor see if you lift fly wheel up . If you can you have case problems which will entail a strip down and line bore or if lucky just main bearings.
Robert

 

[bac2ba6]

They should fit 1st time aslong as it goes in square but saying that I've had the same problem in the past as you fitted one as per correct and it's failed within a few miles. 2nd one has been on a few years now no probs as with a lot of parts don't think there consistent in quality which is the constant battle we face unfortunately

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

 

[Bigbear]

Il check for any movement in the flywheel as suggested, I'm wondering if the new flywheel might not be machined to the exact size to the original, perhaps my original thought of using a speedi sleeve to repair the original flywheel rather than replace with a new one might have been a better option? I suppose until I've got it out to have a look I'll never know the real problem, when replacing the seal you leave it flush to the outer casing is that right? Don't push it too far into the casing?

 

[dustrat]

In reply to your last post . The seal should go as far as possible into case until it stops. There is a ridge in the case to stop it going it too far. It seems that you have not got a proper tool to fit seal to case. Fit new seal flush with case and then use old seal to tap seal into case as far as it will go. Hopefully this may be your problem !!
Robert

 

[Bigbear]

I do have the tool to fit it properly using the gland nut, when I removed the flywheel originally the crankshaft seal was sitting flush to the outer casing so I assumed that's where it should be fitted to? Also, nearly every picture I've seen shows the seal sitting flush, and I've also been advised on here that's where it should fit. Not sure now though, it's got to be right this time so what is people's thoughts on this?

 

[Dirty Harry]

Fully seated in! the cross section drawing in the bently manual also states this.
Do you have a repro or original flywheel? the repro flywheels are beefier at the section where the seal contact face moves over to the back of the flywheel so in other words if the seal isn't pressed in deep enough then the seallip sits on the thicker/slope part of the flywheel and in a way that it can't seal it of when oil pressure builds up, because the seal lip is bend.
I had this problem with a repro flywheel also, plus that they are often too rough and destroy seals in a few hours of running, especially the softer red silicone seals
I also would use a original vw seal, these still can be bought at the local vw dealer, these are made of black harder rubber, and install a new o-ring as well.
A light smear of grease during installation on the crank and seal and the o-ring won't get caught and slips out of it's groove when installing the flywheel.
Check also the tolerances of the flywheel nose.
Hope this helps.

 

[Bigbear]

Cheers Harry, it's a repro flywheel by the way and a red seal (the more expensive one) I did replace the O ring aswell but I'll check everything over when the engines out, hopefully I'll find some evidence of the issue rather than just change everything and hope for the best. I must admit now that I think about it the desk that I changed a few years ago had worn away slightly on the bottom face, this would indicate it not being seated in far enough. Does anyone have a part no for an original seal if I was to ring VW?

 

[Tofufi]

Does anyone have a part no for an original seal if I was to ring VW?

Think it is 113 105 245F

 

[Bigbear]

Cheers for that, I'll get onto them as soon as they're open.

 

[Bigbear]

So today I took the engine out again to replace the seal, it all looked fine and was clean, no signs of anything fouled or damaged,so replaced it anyway along with the O ring, took it for a 5 min spin and she's pissing out oil again!! I honestly don't know what to do now, I'm st a point where I'm about to put her up for sale and let someone else deal with it!! Does anyone have any ideas what might be the issue??
I've replaced the flywheel for a new one, new crankshaft seal, new O ring, and theres no up or down play on the crank, and minimal end float

Please someone help me before I burn her!!!!

 

[Raggles]

Could the oil be coming from anywhere else? Is there anyway of checking it is definitely the crankshaft seal?

 

[Dirty Harry]

Easy mate, there must be a logical explenation for this.
Maybe one of your oil plungers is stuck?
You can check this by unscrewing the 2 bolts (front and rear if it is a double relief case) remove the spring and the plunger must fall out, sometimes with a little help of a round piece of wood!

 

[Bigbear]

I'll check that after work tomorrow, any other ideas to check?

I'm leaning towards the new flywheel being the culprit here, the old flywheel did leak and did have a small groove worn into it, but nowhere near as much of a leak as what I'm getting now. I'm toying with the idea of re fitting the old flywheel with a speedi sleeve fitted to eliminate the groove.

 

[Dirty Harry]

The flywheel nose should measure 69.9-70.1mm
Everything outside these measurements means leaking and you mention grooves!? maybe you can turn these out on a lathe if it stays within specs!