loosing tread after fitting dropped spindles, tyre issues

[dazza1975]

After fitting dropped spindles to our bus, set out to Stanford hall and not even a mile later hit a pothole that bottomed out the bus on the arch and took the tread off my tyres :x so went home and fitted my old steel stocks with 195 x75 x 14 tyres only to find out that on the country lanes and big dips that they bottom out

Question is what tyre size do I need on the front?

Fitted with wagenwest dropped spindles on the front, currently stock on rear and kyb gas a just all round.

Now the steelies are back on the wife wants to keep these so will be getting rid of the 15" brm's.

I have looked through the stance thread and to much to choose from plus don't want to waste money on the wrong size tyres!

Was thinking 185 x 80 x 14's on the rear with 175 x 65 x 14's on the front. Will this work or do I have it completely wrong? :shock:

 

[weeboll]

I don't know but am going down same route shortly either with transporthaus or frenchslammers and keen to know!

my garage guy has told me I will need coil overs at the front if transporterhaus

 

[67westy]

You definitely need coilovers, have a search for the gaz shocks thread. I'm running 165/60/14s and still occasionally rub on extreme bumps. I have an adjuster as well that won't go back to stock position so probably a little lower than you. Plan is to swap the spindles to a stock beam and run Something like 175/65/14

 

[Alex VW Heritage]

You definitely need coilovers,

Rubbish!

I run similar to the wagen west drop spindles and run KYB GR2 shocks and have a lovely comfortable ride.

I run 175/55/15 front tyres,

Running coil over shocks with a beam with torsion leaves is not ideal, (do a bit of research into spring harmonics) just because of the flipped upside down ball joint spindles people have started to use them. You risk bending the bottom shock mount, your shock absorber is designed to do exactly that you should not have to run coil overs to stiffen up the ride on a torsion set up. Coil overs are for strut type cars that dont have torsion with the front set up already.

The welded (such as wagenwest), The new cast (such as the ones available from French Slammer, Empi and ourselves) you should not need to run coil over shocks.

The flipped upside down balljoint (T2D and Transporterhaus) it has become a popular fix to use coil overs, That doesn't mean it a great idea!

I would look at how your beam has been adjusted it may have been done badly so you dont have the correct preload within the beam tubes.

Hope this helps,

Cheers

Alex

 

[dazza1975]

Thanks for the reply, my beam is og and untouched so will look at 175 x 65 x 14 's as these come in 90 load rating and are equivalent to the 175 x 55 x 15' s.

 

[67westy]

You definitely need coilovers,

Rubbish!

I run similar to the wagen west drop spindles and run KYB GR2 shocks and have a lovely comfortable ride.

I run 175/55/15 front tyres,

Running coil over shocks with a beam with torsion leaves is not ideal, (do a bit of research into spring harmonics) just because of the flipped upside down ball joint spindles people have started to use them. You risk bending the bottom shock mount, your shock absorber is designed to do exactly that you should not have to run coil overs to stiffen up the ride on a torsion set up. Coil overs are for strut type cars that dont have torsion with the front set up already.

The welded (such as wagenwest), The new cast (such as the ones available from French Slammer, Empi and ourselves) you should not need to run coil over shocks.

The flipped upside down balljoint (T2D and Transporterhaus) it has become a popular fix to use coil overs, That doesn't mean it a great idea!

I would look at how your beam has been adjusted it may have been done badly so you dont have the correct preload within the beam tubes.

Hope this helps,

Cheers

Alex

I missed the wagenwest bit and assumed transporterhaus. I think wagenwest is 2.5" whilst the t-haus us 3.5" which may be why the coilovers are commonly used with the t-haus setup. Indeed t-haus offered and recommended coilovers for use with their spindles.

Whilst it isn't ideal with torsion leaves, these buses are over 40 years old with tired leaves on the whole. The coilovers are the only solution that has worked for many people, myself included, whether they are running an otherwise stock beam or not.

In hindsight now I would probably go for a smaller drop such as the wagenwest. It certainly seems to throw up less complications.

 

[Alex VW Heritage]

You definitely need coilovers,

Rubbish!

I run similar to the wagen west drop spindles and run KYB GR2 shocks and have a lovely comfortable ride.

I run 175/55/15 front tyres,

Running coil over shocks with a beam with torsion leaves is not ideal, (do a bit of research into spring harmonics) just because of the flipped upside down ball joint spindles people have started to use them. You risk bending the bottom shock mount, your shock absorber is designed to do exactly that you should not have to run coil overs to stiffen up the ride on a torsion set up. Coil overs are for strut type cars that dont have torsion with the front set up already.

The welded (such as wagenwest), The new cast (such as the ones available from French Slammer, Empi and ourselves) you should not need to run coil over shocks.

The flipped upside down balljoint (T2D and Transporterhaus) it has become a popular fix to use coil overs, That doesn't mean it a great idea!

I would look at how your beam has been adjusted it may have been done badly so you dont have the correct preload within the beam tubes.

Hope this helps,

Cheers

Alex

I missed the wagenwest bit and assumed transporterhaus. I think wagenwest is 2.5" whilst the t-haus us 3.5" which may be why the coilovers are commonly used with the t-haus setup. Indeed t-haus offered and recommended coilovers for use with their spindles.

Whilst it isn't ideal with torsion leaves, these buses are over 40 years old with tired leaves on the whole. The coilovers are the only solution that has worked for many people, myself included, whether they are running an otherwise stock beam or not.

In hindsight now I would probably go for a smaller drop such as the wagenwest. It certainly seems to throw up less complications.

The drop isn't the issue to me, its more the upside down ball joints that dont make any sense to me, but each to their own!

 

[Tofufi]

You definitely need coilovers,

Rubbish!

Running coil over shocks with a beam with torsion leaves is not ideal, (do a bit of research into spring harmonics) just because of the flipped upside down ball joint spindles people have started to use them. You risk bending the bottom shock mount, your shock absorber is designed to do exactly that you should not have to run coil overs to stiffen up the ride on a torsion set up. Coil overs are for strut type cars that dont have torsion with the front set up already.

Agreed

From an engineering point of view the coil-over shocks are a compromise.

I run a 4" narrowed beam adjusted to below standard height, WW dropped spindles, and bump stops set up correctly. I never get tyre rubbing with my stock tyres.. and it's got a good ride quality.

 

[Moseley]

Agreed

From an engineering point of view the coil-over shocks are a compromise.

I run a 4" narrowed beam adjusted to below standard height, WW dropped spindles, and bump stops set up correctly. I never get tyre rubbing with my stock tyres.. and it's got a good ride quality.

You can't really compare a narrowed beam in this instance - you get a lot more available travel before a similar sized tyre would hit the arch on a standard width beam.

The long and short of it, no matter what beam you're on, the closer the tyre sits to the arch, the stiffer you're going to have to make the suspension to avoid it contacting. The coilovers are a simple bolt-on workaround for this. Whether or not people agree with the engineering is another question, but we're hardly talking about a modern car trying to squeeze an extra 0.1 seconds off a lap time... I don't think most people would feel any negative effects of running two types of suspension design in combination together.

 

[Alex VW Heritage]

Agreed

From an engineering point of view the coil-over shocks are a compromise.

I run a 4" narrowed beam adjusted to below standard height, WW dropped spindles, and bump stops set up correctly. I never get tyre rubbing with my stock tyres.. and it's got a good ride quality.

You can't really compare a narrowed beam in this instance - you get a lot more available travel before a similar sized tyre would hit the arch on a standard width beam.

The long and short of it, no matter what beam you're on, the closer the tyre sits to the arch, the stiffer you're going to have to make the suspension to avoid it contacting. The coilovers are a simple bolt-on workaround for this. Whether or not people agree with the engineering is another question, but we're hardly talking about a modern car trying to squeeze an extra 0.1 seconds off a lap time... I don't think most people would feel any negative effects of running two types of suspension design in combination together.

I am not so sure VOSA or insurance companies would have that same view :?

 

[Wingnut]

If your on a budget, as I was, the cheap coilovers from Coolair VW work really well at a fraction of the cost. I bought these with my drop spindles and they have never been a problem.