Lowering Gurus wanted - The Gaz shock thread

[aspro]

Let me begin by apologising for starting another lowering thread. I have been trawling the net for days researching and I've got a few questions for the experts out there.

BUS: 68 Single Cab Stock as a block

LOWERING EXPECTATIONS: Like everyone else I want a nice low look with little compromise to ride quality. Don't want it slammed and want to be able to load the tray every once and a while.

Want to keep my stock beam. Happy with the drums up front for now. Would like everything to be reversable and don't want to notch, cut or molest in any way.

BUDGET: Looking at spending under 1000 on parts alone, less if possible. Hopefully get someone to do the work on the cheap.

PROPOSED SETUP: Thaus 3.5" dropped spindles with adjuster. Stock 14" wheels 165x55 front and 185x65 rear. 3.5" drop Horseshoe plates and/or springplates at the rear. Stock beam. Drum brakes.



1. I know conbining adjusters with spindles will retain ride quality and allow you to slightly raise or lower the front, but do I really need the adjusters?? Seems like a lot of work for the option to tweek. What do you think?

2. What do the horseshoe plates and springplates do apart from allowing you to remove the tyres easier? Do I need both or will I get away with just one?

3. Do I need the rear springplates or horseshoe plates at all if I'm running 14" 185x65 rubber at the rear?

4. How much labour is involved in setting this up for a professional?

5. What sort of ride quality should I expect from this set up?

Would love to know what you guys think and possible get some answers to the q's above. Cheers guys

 

[67westy]

Ok well I wouldn't call myself a guru but I'll try and answer your questions based on my experiences.

1. I have the dropped spindles and an adjuster. Unfortunately I think the adjuster has been fitted in such a way that it only lowers and it's base position is lower than stock. I would like to have some upwards adjustment as well and I think it's useful to be able to dial in the ride height you prefer. Fit the adjuster so you can go up or down from the stock height.

2. I've not got horseshoe plates but the springplates allow you to go lower without turning a spline which would reduce your suspension travel and ride comfort. If for example your base position after lowering is an adjustable springplate on it's lowest setting it gives you the option to wind this up when you increase the load. I am running slamwerks adjustable plates + turned 1 spline to get the rear level. I think if I had a taller garage door I would prefer just the plates on the lowest setting and the default spline setting for clearance and ride comfort.

3. It'll give you a more comfortable ride rather than turning the existing springplate

4. No idea for a professional but it took 2 of us about a day and a half but that included work for getting through the MOT as well, so maybe a day for the amateur?

5. Hopefully pretty smooth if you can avoid rubbing on the front. Due to mine being down a bit I have ordered some GAZ coilovers. The normal bugpack ones seemed a little on the weedy side to me so I wanted to firm it up a bit. You will probably need different shocks on the rear as well.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

[67westy]

Just seen you are in lincolnshire, if you're nearby to skeg or Lincoln I'm sure we can arrange a test drive some time

Tuesday night lincoln meet up next week as well.....

 

[aspro]

Just seen you are in lincolnshire, if you're nearby to skeg or Lincoln I'm sure we can arrange a test drive some time

Tuesday night lincoln meet up next week as well.....

Thanks for the info 67Westy. That's cleared up a lot of queries. Tuesday night is a go for me. See you guys then.

Anyone know if a link pin beam will make a big difference to ride quality? I know it will be slighly narrower and have more ground clearance, but is the ride quality that much better. Just got quoted close to 3000 pounds for a new setup. :shock:

 

[67westy]

No problem, I'll be there so you can have a look round mine and see it all first hand. For 3k I would be looking at the red 9 wishbone setup. adjustable beam height, steering rack and disk brakes for much less than that! It's on my list of things to buy

 

[dubdubz]

no expert either just real life experience....

I would go K&L if you want to go low....the dropped spindles are fine [ I have them] but the ride is slightly bouncy and now harsh with the coil over shocks.
Try and get bump stops fitted on the front - they will help. It's my next job as is the narrowed ARB.

I only went narrow so I could fit porsche rims, it's a lot of hassle to do yourself.

If you look here ... the top adjuster is reversed so as not to interfere with the gear selector. This was a pain to get around.


The rear is easier, depending on how low you'll need to possibly remove the bumpstops - not an easy job. Slamwerks springplates are very good. And shorter silver KYB's.

Notching is another headache...

 

[aspro]

Great info guys. Thanks for all the info. I think I need to do a lot more homework and saving.

 

[AndyO]

If I had my time again:

Wouldn't bother with Adjusters
Wouldn't bother with HorseShoes if you get spring plates, can always add later
Get Adj Springplates
Get THous Drop Spindles
Get Air Shocks - or GOOD adjustable coilovers (Some Say: May not be needed, they were in my case and many others - another option is Gas Adjust I believe)

The last step is where I am at the moment, the Coil Overs as provided by T2D are not up to the job and make the van under damped in my (and again others) opinion. Eying up air shocks at the moment (either Monroe MA824 or MA803). If purchased from the states even with shipping they are quite reasonable, if you want to add a compressor this adds up though I guess.

The beauty of using either coilovers or air (esp MA824) is that you can effectively raise the bus back up, this way negating the need to use adjusters (as others have said you using adjusters for raising with drop spindles rather than lowering - in most cases), which are a pain to adjust anyway.

Hope this helps.

 

[67westy]

The good adjustable coilovers is what I'm waiting for at the minute. Ordered from Gaz a few weeks ago and should be here soon. Air shocks were a bit too much work for me, I wanted something simple and unobtrusive.

 

[AndyO]

@67westy: Any info on the shocks that you have ordered? Would be good to get some feedback once you have bunged them on as well...

Out of interest what do you have now?

 

[67westy]

They are a set of Gaz GP coilovers. Very similar to something I borrowed off Graham at MEB so hopefully should do the job

http://www.gazshocks.com/products/dampers#gazgp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'll get the exact spec for you when they arrive as I can't remember what I ordered now :lol:

 

[ZedBed]

If I had my time again:

Wouldn't bother with Adjusters
Wouldn't bother with HorseShoes if you get spring plates, can always add later
Get Adj Springplates
Get THous Drop Spindles
Get Air Shocks - or GOOD adjustable coilovers (Some Say: May not be needed, they were in my case and many others - another option is Gas Adjust I believe)

The last step is where I am at the moment, the Coil Overs as provided by T2D are not up to the job and make the van under damped in my (and again others) opinion. Eying up air shocks at the moment (either Monroe MA824 or MA803). If purchased from the states even with shipping they are quite reasonable, if you want to add a compressor this adds up though I guess.

The beauty of using either coilovers or air (esp MA824) is that you can effectively raise the bus back up, this way negating the need to use adjusters (as others have said you using adjusters for raising with drop spindles rather than lowering - in most cases), which are a pain to adjust anyway.

Hope this helps.

Exactly where I ended up, but I fitted gas-a-just shocks (not actually adjustable). I have a lightweight tintop, travel light etc, but You do need some more "spring" if you have a family camper as you're using the softest part of progressive springs of the original suspension. Great on smooth roads. :lol:

 

[Clem]

Im interested in the GAZ dampers too. I need something a bit firmer up front Ive decided.

 

[aspro]

Some interesting info in the last few posts regarding gas shocks and coilovers.

Assuming you had a good set of Monroe gas shocks with a powerful compressor and dash mounted control switch, wouldn't that negate the need to spend ridiculous money to lower your bus correctly? What I'm trying to say is, if you can get away with just some dropped spindles and adjustable springplates at the rear, pump your shocks up full to drive for comfort and clearance and then drop it down low when you park for the cool factor, won't this be enough?

 

[AndyO]

They are a set of Gaz GP coilovers. Very similar to something I borrowed off Graham at MEB so hopefully should do the job

http://www.gazshocks.com/products/dampers#gazgp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'll get the exact spec for you when they arrive as I can't remember what I ordered now :lol:

Good man, I think that this is useful to many

 

[AndyO]

Some interesting info in the last few posts regarding gas shocks and coilovers.

Assuming you had a good set of Monroe gas shocks with a powerful compressor and dash mounted control switch, wouldn't that negate the need to spend ridiculous money to lower your bus correctly? What I'm trying to say is, if you can get away with just some dropped spindles and adjustable springplates at the rear, pump your shocks up full to drive for comfort and clearance and then drop it down low when you park for the cool factor, won't this be enough?

IMO yes, just the ticket - when you say ridiculous money, it's subjective - the approach you mention is still £1000 + plus labour (DIY is the way forward though, and you could use a foot pump / plug in 12 v compressor to adjust them to save money).

A cheap approach would be an adjuster in the beam and a spline or two at the rear (how mine was when I got it...) very rough, crashy ride.

It's certainly enough and is a very good way to lower your bus, the other issues that I have found is that when I was lower on splines I had excessive negative camber. I figured raise her up to std and put horseshoes on, to get rid of said camber. This worked, but as I have aftermarket 'foosh' wheels (ET20???) they then fouled the arch / lip = grind :roll:. I do not have adjustable rear spring plates so can't comment on camber with those - others might. I like the idea of the adjusability of these and may get around to buying a set someday and ditching the horseshoes, or using both together of course...

Now, someone already mentioned the red 9 kit - which also gives better steering, great ride etc. When you do your sums have a look at this as it is another viable option.

 

[Graham L]

With regards to the GAZ Dampers that Adam mentions above I'm happy to share the information with people as the intention was to offer them at a good deal by buying in bulk but couldn't get enough interest to buy them in the right quantity.

I've checked the records this morning and the dampers that have been fitted to Monty (my old 69 Panel Van, Adams (67 Westy) and are currently fitted to my latest bus 'Billy' are GAZ Units 160/105B12, they are fitted from memory with 9" Springs but can double check that, I'm currently running 150lb springs but when Adam had them they where fitted with 125lb springs.

Happy to show people and let people have a go in my bus if it helps, they are 10 times better than the bug pack ones which are off the back of a beetle, are height adjustable within reason, they have never bottomed out (dont get me wrong the beam has hit the floor a few times) but thats due to bad roads rather than the dampers, don't suffer from any wheel arch rub and I won't win slimmer of the year anytime soon :lol: :lol: . Bus is on transporterhaus dropped spindles.

 

[67westy]

Do the 150lb springs make a big difference Graham? I ordred mine with the 125 ones

 

[Graham L]

Do the 150lb springs make a big difference Graham? I ordered mine with the 125 ones

i think they made a difference I found the 125's a bit soft, but I am a big guy!!

 

[67westy]

Could be worth trying to change them then if I'm not too late....

cheers