More lowering advice please :)

[type2tattoo]

Hi I am getting there slowly with the major rebuild of my '71 (some pics in the gallery)

My friend who is doing the welding seems to have been hit over the head with the lowering stick lol he decided to take it down 3! splines at the back, there's no engine or gearbox in her yet and she looks really silly.

I have got Avis adjusters for the front (£50 on ebay) but I have read they will only take her down 4 inches, can anyone tell me if we can acheive a sensible stance with these and is 3 splines too low?

Also what shocks should I get for front and rear. I really don't like a jolty ride and would rather stay stock if it looses its bounce.

Any advice greatly appreciated

Also bare in mind I am a granny and don't want to spill my cuppa tea while driving

Here's a pic of the silliness....

 

[ground hugger]

Hi
that looks like two to me :msn4: .with adjusters 1or 2 on the rear is about the most you will get away with "look wise".3 spline your looking at putting droped spindles on to get the look.Shocks...get the stance your after first then measure up from mount to mount ,the lower you go the stiffer the shocks.Unless you start chopping
if it is three splines on the rear you will have to notch the spring plates and cut the chassis, for the drive shafts and A arms.

 

[Araon]

now thats with no gearbox or engine..... you do realise that with a puncture your never in a month of sundays gonna get the wheel off.....

as above it'll require chassis notching and a massive drop on the front ....

if your wanting a big drop then your aswell to go for horseshoes or dropped spring plates....

1 notch then with the adjusters you'll get a slight nose down or level look.....

 

[type2tattoo]

Cheers guys so 3 is too low without messing about with other parts? he did cut the first knob off the bump stops? I have enough to buy to get her back on the road without any more expense.

It does look cool from the back though

 

[mjknight71]

...that is the stance mine had when I bought it :shock: ....saggy arsed 8)

 

[sparkywig]

...that is the stance mine had when I bought it :shock: ....saggy arsed 8)

And me, but no rear suspension travel.....

 

[rustydiver]

Mine had the same stance when i lowerd the rear

This was before i fitted adjusters to the front

The van is level now. I am riding the bump stops at the rear so can go up 1 spline for a bit of suspension travel.

Thats a winter time job to do in the garage.

 

[AxlFoley]

Is it sat on the bump stops at the moment ? I would reccomend you take it up a spline, get it on the road and then mess about with the stance.

The problem you have with going to low on the front with an adjusted is bottoming out on the bump stops, not good! Im not sure how low you can go without this being an issue though, but I'm sure someone will be along soon to tell me how low.

Mark

 

[uber cool]

2 splines at the rear is the limit without any major mods and just using the spline method.

1 splines - no mods required other than bump stops cut down, but a little neg camber on wheels
2 splines - cut more bump stop off, notch the spring plates, shorter dampers .Serious neg camber (from the rear look like your suspension has collapsed)
3 splines - all the above, probably into notching the chassis rail to clear the driveshafts.

To be honest without the engine/gearbox and interior in place you have no idea what it will bottom out at. Looking at the photos you have a lot of weight to go back on, at 3 splines down it will end up sat on the bump stops or driveshafts on the chassis.

I would suggest going back up to 1 or 2 spilnes and fine tune once the van i back together.

My bus below is 1 spline at the rear.

 

[cyberdyne systems]

Ideally you want to be setting the rear when the full weight is back in (engine and box). With a 4 " drop at the front, you'll be looking at between a one or two spline drop at the rear to either keep a slight rake or a level stance. Tyre sizes can help too, with most going for a taller rear tyre.

As for shocks, its probably a good idea to get something slightly better than stock, maybe adjustable, as by lowering it you are taking away some of the fronts travel and the shocks can help.

Gareth

 

[type2tattoo]

Thanks for the advice peeps

I passed it on to my friend with the spanners and he says there is no way it can have negative camber? He even drew me a picture but I still don't get it?

Has my bus got some sort of odd rear suspension or is the man with the spanner mad?

Its going up a couple of splines untill the engine goes in so we can see what she looks like

 

[buddysbuddy]

I need some 356 wheels, this looks hot!!!

 

[stagger lee]

he's on about the irs aspect swing axles that only had a joint on the inner sufferred from it. inner outer jointed shafts. imagine a capital letter 'T' now rotate it 90 degrees clockwise. now pivot it at the left hand end of the horzontal line. the vertical line on the right represents your wheel, and does not stay verticle as it pivots, yeah. now imagine a flexible joint where the two lines meet, at the right end of the horizontal line and the middle of the vertical line. now as the horizontal line pivots as before the verticle line can stay verticle due to the flexible joint.

if you were a arrogant cheese eating surrender monkey waiter on a ferry holding a tray of stewed horse meat that had been reared on sewerage above your head. as the ship pitched and rolled your arm/body would angle appropriately, but the tray would remain horizontal. your wrist acting as the flexible joint. this is whats happening, but not upright, yeah?

lower the front first, then match the back.

 

[type2tattoo]

if you were a arrogant cheese eating surrender monkey waiter on a ferry holding a tray of stewed horse meat that had been reared on sewerage above your head. as the ship pitched and rolled your arm/body would angle appropriately, but the tray would remain horizontal. your wrist acting as the flexible joint. this is whats happening, but not upright, yeah?

lower the front first, then match the back.

:lol: :lol: :lol: I'm trying to imagine but its difficult :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[uber cool]

Yes he's talking rubbish, you can get neg camber, by the ways its not a bad thing, but too much will wear the tyres unevenly. Bascally see image below, image reviewed from the rear. the top of the wheels will lean in and the bottom point out. However without the engine etc it will be having mega amounts of positive camber ( that were the tops lean out) as there is no weight in the bus.

Hope this helps

 

[uber cool]

Couldnt find a pic of a camper, but you get the idea.

 

[stagger lee]

fronts aren't an issue, which for clarity those tyre images are. regarding the rear though; isn't that whole camber thing relevant to swing axles only, like the images of the t1's? on a bus rear the two cv joints inner and outer keep things up right? when you raise/lower the rear on the splines, the wheel doesn't angle like a swing axle. it stays verticle. see below

top is std, middle swing axle thing, bottom is irs jobby.

am i right or wrong?

it's been a while and my van is in storage, but it's on a dog-legged spring-plate and at least two splines, i think 3? rear wheel is not angled, if it is it's undetectable by the naked eye, and it's low.

 

[type2tattoo]

fronts aren't an issue, which for clarity those tyre images are. regarding the rear though; isn't that whole camber thing relevant to swing axles only, like the images of the t1's? on a bus rear the two cv joints inner and outer keep things up right? when you raise/lower the rear on the splines, the wheel doesn't angle like a swing axle. it stays verticle. see below

top is std, middle swing axle thing, bottom is irs jobby.

am i right or wrong?

it's been a while and my van is in storage, but it's on a dog-legged spring-plate and at least two splines, i think 3? rear wheel is not angled, if it is it's undetectable by the naked eye, and it's low.

I think this is what he is trying to tell me :? never lowered it before so have no idea??

He has lowered his T4 and usually knows what he's on about anyway its going back up till I get the engine in

Thanks for trying to explain but its a bit like the offside rule or brake horse power I just don't get it lol

 

[uber cool]

I think we might be going off the orignal topic on lowering, I only added that it will increase neg camber, and again state it's not a bad thing but you will get increase neg the lower you go, not as much as the Beetle pictured granted. Which whilst try to help has made it worse :roll:

The image was to show the angle of the wheel in relation to the term neg camber. Yes its a front wheel but the terms neg camber apply to either rear or front, couldnt find a rear wheel image on a google search :roll:

Mines got 1.5 deg negative on the rear and its visable from the rear. Others on here will also say the same.

The main point was that 3 splines will be too low and 2 would be better and you'll only get the true idea when all the weight is back in the van.

Stagger Lee, you are correct about 2 cv joint but even with 2 joints the drive shaft will form an arc because when moved in a large enough amount, as the shaft doesnt change length. When you lower a van its a big step change in ride height and you dont need much camber to be visible to the eye, hope this helps, probably doesnt :roll:

Dont worry I dont understand the offside rule, and i'm not that bothered either :mrgreen:

 

[stagger lee]

i'm with you ube', threads always go off the rails, not a bad thing really. end up picking up other bits of info. mine must have this camber, just never noticed it even though it fairly slammed. unfortunately it's been off the road for a while stored but next year things are gonna change, i can feel it, i'm a winner 8).

found this from back in the day, you can see the camber on the rear wheels.