Red9 coil over lowering kit

[froggy]

When i enquired and spoke to Simon's Dad he said the bump stop need completely removing, but apparently they need removing whatever way you lower the front end. Red9 have designed some replacement bumpstops though that fit there system.
As previously said, after reading thread after thread on both here and VZi i haven't actually read any failures that are directly due to the red9 kit. A few people have friends of a friend of a friend but no-one in any thread i have read has had it happen to them.

Also its a proven fact that adjusters do fail and have failed with the consequences just the same as if a red9 kit was to ever fail, hence red9 designing fail safe bump stops.
When i get some money spare (in about 2012 just in time for the olympics :lol: ) then this is the kit i;m fitting

 

[Araon]

Dont know what they were thinking telling you that fella,

the suspension is actually a traverse torsion leaf suspension with added dampers tower to lower arm, red9 remove the torsion leave and place all the suspension and force associated with it to a single point, coil and oil damper.....

Now they've not as far as I can see had a failure, I do like the quality of their stuff but you cant get around the fact that all the force, quite considerable on a braking bus, is put on the lower arm and tower mount.....

I personally would like to see a new lower arm designed with this in mind, beefed up damer/shock mount coupled to new towers with new integral bumpstops....

That said I'm looking forward to seeing what they have planned for the future....

oh and with dropped spindles you wont need to cut the bumpstops as the arm geometry doesnt change, just the spindle and wheel in relation to the arch....

 

[Hilly_70]

I know im dragging this on ... but its gotta be right ..

This is what the web site says :

Lower your Bug and have the best ride quality available. Fully adjustable for height and damping. Proven quality components and easy fitment. No cutting or welding required. No special tools needed.

suggesting NO CUTTING of bump stop bar ...

Im confused ..

I don't fancy it without a bumpstop bar at all as theres no where to stop the travel ..

Do you only need to remove the bar with a full drop? ... Im only going 2 to 3 inches, so will i need to do it?

I've emailed Simon again to find out ..

Hilly

 

[Graham L]

I'm not trying to be funny but did you read my post above and look at Jovals Picture on Page 4, there is a bumpstop available from Red 9 to replace the original one.

In order to lower buses by adjusters you have to cut the bump stops off as they get in the way or as Aaron pointed out above the only time you don't is when using drop spindles as all you are altering is the height of the stub axle.

The posts above answer your question so I'm confused why you are confused :?: :?:

 

[Araon]

the main issue you will find with the red 9 that people have is if the lower arm were to ever fail (no evidence yet of that happening) due to the lack of bump stop the bus freely travels in a rapid direction towards the wheel... scary we will all agree.... this is why he now produces bump stops that replace the originals, he still stands by his opinion that they are not required.....

I still like his gear just not fully convinced that the weight of the bus on the lower mount is without aid a good idea...... the way my luck runs it would be me doing 60 on the motorway trying to pull passed a HGV when I hit a bit of subsidence in the road and bang the cast arm fractures, the bus lurches, (oh dear not a good time to be driving forward control) you get the picture, I would want a minimum of bump stops, possibly gusset the arms.... but then I'm staying stock height as VW intended, may consider dropped spindles in the future (liking the look of t2d) or see what red 9 have in the pipeline.....

 

[Hilly_70]

I'm not trying to be funny but did you read my post above and look at Jovals Picture on Page 4, there is a bumpstop available from Red 9 to replace the original one.

In order to lower buses by adjusters you have to cut the bump stops off as they get in the way or as Aaron pointed out above the only time you don't is when using drop spindles as all you are altering is the height of the stub axle.

The posts above answer your question so I'm confused why you are confused :?: :?:

I'm not confused by your explanation .. Just questioning the claim of no cutting required ..

 

[Joval]

I'm not trying to be funny but did you read my post above and look at Jovals Picture on Page 4, there is a bumpstop available from Red 9 to replace the original one.

In order to lower buses by adjusters you have to cut the bump stops off as they get in the way or as Aaron pointed out above the only time you don't is when using drop spindles as all you are altering is the height of the stub axle.

The posts above answer your question so I'm confused why you are confused :?: :?:

I'm not confused by your explanation .. Just questioning the claim of no cutting required ..

It does say 'bug' in that text box so I wouldn't pay much attention to it, it's a cut 'n' paste for the website.

 

[Hilly_70]

..it does say bug .. But it's from the type 2 lowering page info ..

I appreciate your frustration in me asking things that have already been covered .. But when there is conflicting info to a first time lowerer .. I gotta make sure I'm making the right decision before blowing the dosh and risking exile from our house for doing so !

As always I appreciate the vast amount of knowledge you guys hold as a collective .. And can only ask on behalf of tagger alongs that you bear with us till we learn ..

So ..

Do you have to cut them off or not?
.. Just kidding mate!

Hilly

 

[Araon]

For a very mild drop you'll get away with cutting the lower stop down.......

Ride it stock height, infact raise it.......

High the new Low...................

 

[cyberdyne systems]

..it does say bug .. But it's from the type 2 lowering page info ..

I appreciate your frustration in me asking things that have already been covered .. But when there is conflicting info to a first time lowerer .. I gotta make sure I'm making the right decision before blowing the dosh and risking exile from our house for doing so !

As always I appreciate the vast amount of knowledge you guys hold as a collective .. And can only ask on behalf of tagger alongs that you bear with us till we learn ..

So ..

Do you have to cut them off or not?
.. Just kidding mate!

Hilly

In reality unless your using dropped spindles on both bus and bug, your going to want to remove the bumpstops. The Bus one's are particularly big if you take a look. The way adjusters and the Red9 lowing works is to change the angle of the torsion arms, thereby moving them closer to the bumpstops, hence without removing them you loose travel. If you were only going down 2" then you may get away without removing them.

I too would like to see something additional to go over the lower torsion arm to 'beef' it up, as this is the only concern everyone has with this method, it might be just a placebo effect, as there may well be more than enough strength in the arm, but would give people more confidence.

 

[Hilly_70]

For a very mild drop you'll get away with cutting the lower stop down.......

Ride it stock height, infact raise it.......

High the new Low...................

I saw that on a late bay ... plates to move the front beam down and fo big off road tyres .. splines at the rear ( i think!) ..

... it suited a late bay! ... :wink:


In reality, im not averse to stock height ... i just dont like my front end sticking 'up' like an fiesta with no engine in it ... just level would be nice!

Hilly

 

[Joval]

..it does say bug .. But it's from the type 2 lowering page info ..

I appreciate your frustration in me asking things that have already been covered .. But when there is conflicting info to a first time lowerer .. I gotta make sure I'm making the right decision before blowing the dosh and risking exile from our house for doing so !

As always I appreciate the vast amount of knowledge you guys hold as a collective .. And can only ask on behalf of tagger alongs that you bear with us till we learn ..

So ..

Do you have to cut them off or not?
.. Just kidding mate!

Hilly

In reality unless your using dropped spindles on both bus and bug, your going to want to remove the bumpstops. The Bus one's are particularly big if you take a look. The way adjusters and the Red9 lowing works is to change the angle of the torsion arms, thereby moving them closer to the bumpstops, hence without removing them you loose travel. If you were only going down 2" then you may get away without removing them.

I too would like to see something additional to go over the lower torsion arm to 'beef' it up, as this is the only concern everyone has with this method, it might be just a placebo effect, as there may well be more than enough strength in the arm, but would give people more confidence.

What about the damper itself? I would have thought that would fail before there was enough force to shear the mounts?

I'm only guessing though, I have no engineering background.

 

[Airtime]

I too would like to see something additional to go over the lower torsion arm to 'beef' it up, as this is the only concern everyone has with this method, it might be just a placebo effect, as there may well be more than enough strength in the arm, but would give people more confidence.

I have seen this as a possible solution, but I'm not sure if this is the right way...

 

[cyberdyne systems]

I too would like to see something additional to go over the lower torsion arm to 'beef' it up, as this is the only concern everyone has with this method, it might be just a placebo effect, as there may well be more than enough strength in the arm, but would give people more confidence.

I have seen this as a possible solution, but I'm not sure if this is the right way...

The funny thing is that the new bolt is no bigger than the one fixed to the torsion arm, so does it really make a blind bit of difference :?:

 

[Joval]

I too would like to see something additional to go over the lower torsion arm to 'beef' it up, as this is the only concern everyone has with this method, it might be just a placebo effect, as there may well be more than enough strength in the arm, but would give people more confidence.

I have seen this as a possible solution, but I'm not sure if this is the right way...

The funny thing is that the new bolt is no bigger than the one fixed to the torsion arm, so does it really make a blind bit of difference :?:

How much force does it take to shear a bolt of that spec.? M12 8.8 (IIRC)

 

[dubdubz]

not sure it helps?

The Industrial Fastener Institute (Inch Fastener Standards, 7th ed. 2003. B-2) states that shear strength is approximately 60% of the minimum tensile strength.

“As an empirical guide, shear strengths of carbon steel fasteners may be assumed to be approximately 60 percent of their specified minimum tensile strengths. For example, an SAE grade 5 hex cap screw has a specified minimum tensile strength of 120,000 psi. Therefore, for design purposes, its shear strength could be reasonably assumed to be 70,000 psi.”

http://www.portlandbolt.com/technicalinformation/fastener_identification_markings.html

 

[dubdubz]

actually this seems better.......

http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Grade-Chart.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ground hugger]

I once fitted some coilover shocks to a mini I had
The top mount bolt didn't snap but it bent it up :shock:

And another thing ive noticed why didn't they weld or seal the outside of the beam tubes surely this is going to let water in behind the welds .Ok its not
a big problem and would take a few years to rot out but its there and they didnt
pick up on it when it was designed

 

[froggy]

For a very mild drop you'll get away with cutting the lower stop down............

.
Never heard about this way, i only want to tighten the front end up a touch as its a bit rolly.

Ride it stock height............

.
Having re-read this entire thread (that i started) i'm beginning to think maybe stock is looking better.

 

[Guest]

How much force does it take to shear a bolt of that spec.? M12 8.8 (IIRC)

im told its over 100 tonnes.

AFAIK the engine on the airbus 747 is held on by one bolt! i **** you not! thats a couple of hundred thousand pounds of thrust. I saw it in a film about the big Panamerica crash, the first large commercial airline crash, aparrently after routinely removing and inspecting the engine, the engineers didnt tighten this nut enough and eventually it sheered mid air.