Red9kit - do i need DS to get a comfortable ride?

[Guest]

The problem here is the ball joint failed, not the Red9 kit :roll: . Would the same thing not have happened if the bus had been slammed on adjusters only?

Limit of travel on ball joints is always a factor on going very low, but i see so many armchair mechanics knock the red9 system without any foundation or on someone else's word, but i havent yet seen anyone back this up with solid evidence or otherwise on all of the forums thesamba VZi etc. I've had the Red9 2-4" kits on my bus and had no issues at all. I've gone the narrowed route and didnt know red9 were selling narrowed beams otherwise would have purchased from there after reading Ants thread.

Personally i think its innovative and gives another option for going low and getting an excellent ride. There are slimmer red9 bump stops to stop any critical failure, critical failures can happen on any part of the suspension as simon has pointed out with the passat.

If this system was so poor or dangerous Simon would have been out of business long ago and correct me if i'm wrong but they have sold more than 500 units?

Simon, i'm sorry if you feel you are being unfairly critisised, im glad you have posted. We don't have enough companies in the UK developing parts like Red9, and knocking them with no solid proof or otherwise is unfair!

 

[Slammed]

The problem here is the ball joint failed, not the Red9 kit :roll: . Would the same thing not have happened if the bus had been slammed on adjusters only?

Well said, sounds like Nic's limited knowledge of balljoints is to blame, not Red 9! :lol:

 

[ant]

Si has told me on numerous occansions that he avoids forums, for this very reason... he is a mild mannered chap all round nice guy,excellent engineer and loves his dubs.
He uses his bus (one pictured fitted with red9 kit) every day and travels to trade at shows most weekends over the summer. They have sold over 1000 units now, i know this because i was the lucky 1000th customer 8) He has bent over backwards to help me out over the last few months and i can't thank him enough and in the his own words "everyone gets the same service". The service i've received has been phenomenal. The products he sells are top notch and the plans he has got for the future are very interesting indeed and will be for most peeps on this forum.
Hope you come back on here Si.... its a fantastic forum.

ant

 

[ant]

If you use adjustors or coilovers on a bay you are always going to have less travel on your ball joints. If you stick with balljoints like i have the only way to lesson that effect on the balljoints themselves would be to use dropped spindles.

example:

This is my bus lowered (how is not important) and dropped spindles... check the ride height.

At the above ride height, this is the view from underneath.

does that look dangerous to you :?:

 

[Nic B-C]

Sorry but this is a laughable response.

I must also add that the above is a quote from a Club member not myself, I personally would not buy the kit as i elieve it not to be a safe system plus I prefer stock ride height due to a bad back.

The testing procedure for red 9 always used to be " we drove it around a really rough field and it seemed to be OK" no TUV or similar testing etc.

I know of quite a few failures of people using Red 9 and although the components sold have not failed it is the very nature of the set up which has caused the other components on the cars to fail.

I think its very lucky that there hasnt been a catastrophic accident as of.

Loading the whole system ona single sheer pin has never been a good engineering design especially when its supporting the whole front end of a rather heavy bus which increases several fold under braking!

Call it my limited engineering knowledge or knowledge of balljoints etc if you like but this is how I and many others see the problems inherant with this kit.

Conversely other people I know who have this kit fittted swear by it and the ride quality.

Building a sytem which cannot allow for the useable range of the balljoint also needs to be looked into, others have addressed this by using droped spindles which would always be my prefered route.

PS when I was told of this latest failure my first move was to tell Chris to get in touch with the company, Im not sure if to date he has done this or not and this is down to him.

 

[Nic B-C]

It doesnt stop there though as there are several makes of very dodgy welded droped spindles about as well, my advise is do lots of research if going low

 

[Nic B-C]

And dont get me started on dodgy narrowed beams, one guy in my club bought one off someone trading on VZi and one of the beam ends was about 15 degrees off horizontal to the rest of the beam, simply hadnt been jigged (wasnt a Red 9)

 

[Graham L]

Nic

I'm sure by posting you had the best intentions of trying to point out what you believe are shortcomings in the design of the Red 9 Kit but its very dangerous to do this on a public forum and I think some of the posts have turned against you based on the way the info was posted.

I think its fair to say that on Earlybay everyone has a right to their own views but we always try and be friendly and avoid things turning into a slanging match as seems to happen on other forums. However I'm slightly concerned that you are trying to deliberately turn this post into a slating of Red 9 even though it appears the incident with the ball joint breaking did not happen to you yourself and your other comments about Red 9 and their testing procedure are hardly complimentary and don't appear to be based on actual evidence but hearsay which is a dangerous thing.

Surely if you believe there is a problem with their design then this is a conversation you should be having with them rather than airing your views on an open forum that anyone including Red 9 can read, having been a moderator on a another car club forum I know the ins and outs of libel & slander on the internet and believe me we don't want to go down that route.

I'm not a moderator on this site and I'm speaking for myself but I suggest that if you want to make any more comments about Red 9's design and engineering that you have these conversations with them and then let us hear both sides of the discussion.

I'm sorry if you feel this is harsh and unfriendly but I believe Red 9 should have an opportunity to respond once they have investigated what actually happened to this and the other failures you say have happened so we can get a balanced view and let people make their own minds up,

 

[faux]

I think its fair to say that on Earlybay everyone has a right to their own views but we always try and be friendly and avoid things turning into a slanging match as seems to happen on other forums.

I have to say I am with Graham here....

This is why I spend so much time on here.....it is for friends who share a similar interest. I can spend my time on VZI if I want to argue....or tell the Mrs how much my hobby really costs :mrgreen:

We are not all going to agree on this, and even the best make mistakes so enjoy the scene for what it is DIVERSE.

Peace and love, peace and love

 

[Nic B-C]

Totally agree but how can me having a conversation with Simon be of any use whatsoever.

I am merely stating three failures of this system within my club and my personal choice not to use the system.

The quote on testing of this system is from Red 9 themselves a few years ago, think its even in an article on them in a major magazine if my memory serves me right!

Its not tittle tattle but fact so no chance of slander or any similar things you see on other forums which i have been the but of in the past.

Sorry if I have bought a sour taste to this forum.

But as Ive said above you need to have informed choice if you are going to modify your ride. This is a public forum for exactly this type of thing.

 

[Guest]

But as Ive said above you need to have informed choice if you are going to modify your ride. This is a public forum for exactly this type of thing.

Im not one for censorship and everyone is allowed an opinion but if you cant back up the information with proof (which was the point of my initial post) then i find it hard to believe :? . Insurance reports or pictures would be useful? I'm sceptical because i've inquired alot about the kit and heard people say its not safe etc. ive PMd a few people on VZi who claimed the kit had failed but funnily enough there was no response. Thats why i fitted it to see for myself.

I'm only speaking from my experience of the Red9 kit myself and from others i know have it fitted for more than a year with no issues. Anyone trying to go low on old/original ball joints with any system of lowering should be wary.

As the guys have said this is a friendly forum and the mods will keep it that way :wink:, we are not in the business of knocking anyone's products with hearsay, sorry.

 

[cyberdyne systems]

My main issue to the Red9 set up was the front of the van is now sitting on the shock mount on the lower trailing arm, not the fact that if you go low enough you run out of travel on the ball joints, cause this is the same with either of the two methods of coil overs or adjusters.

I've spoken to a few people here and as far as i know there has never been a failure of the shock mount on the trailing arm - also you can get a bump stop to avoid total failure.

So really the main problem is that there seems to be a lack of education about the effects of lowering by the two methods above. For me on a ball joint equiped van you really should figure on using dropped spindles with either of the above method's.

I for one would like this forum to remain friendly, but i have no problem with people giving their opinions, and hope they are based on personal experience and fact not hearsay.

Gareth