Red9kit - do i need DS to get a comfortable ride?

[Reto]

Hallo,
i want to slam my 71 Westi approx. 5 inches at the front. Think about to order a red9 kit (4-5,5).

Most important thing for me is to have a comfortable ride. So i wonder if it is necessary (and possible?) to add dropped spindles to the red9 setup? Would that give me a much better ride than the red9 kit alone?

I have read that the red9 kit gives you a good ride at itself. has anyone a red9 kit and can confirm that ?

Thanks for your advice!

Greetings from germany
Reto

 

[cyberdyne systems]

Yes you do, its the ball joints that get to full travel that gives the harsh ride. Any method of lowering will do the same thing on a ball joint equipped front end - adding dropped spindle's restore's a lot of that travel in the ball joint, making for a more comfortable ride.

You can use dropped spindles with the Red9 kit, they will increase the track a bit too, so take that into consideration, when choosing which wheels to run.

Gareth

 

[Graham L]

This is contrary to what red 9 say, they say there is no need to use dropped spindles and the ride remains comfortable at all height settings, this is because they remove the springs from the middle of the front beam and rely on adjustable platform coil over springs to do the damping etc.

They had a bus at Oktoberfest dropped to something like 4.5 inches without the use of dropped spindles and they reckoned the ride was still very good, I had no opportunity to try it but I would suggest if you are planning to spend that kind of money it would be worth checking this out as adding drop spindles adds another chunk of money.

If Ant is reading this he may be able to add to what I have said as I know he is converting at the moment/in the near future,

 

[Loxy]

This is contrary to what red 9 say, they say there is no need to use dropped spindles and the ride remains comfortable at all height settings, this is because they remove the springs from the middle of the front beam and rely on adjustable platform coil over springs to do the damping etc.

They had a bus at Oktoberfest dropped to something like 4.5 inches without the use of dropped spindles and they reckoned the ride was still very good, I had no opportunity to try it but I would suggest if you are planning to spend that kind of money it would be worth checking this out as adding drop spindles adds another chunk of money.

If Ant is reading this he may be able to add to what I have said as I know he is converting at the moment/in the near future,

My guess is the coilover shocks bottom out before the ball joints do, but I guess R9 can tell you for sure.

 

[Matt Maz]

I have recently ordered both the 4-5.5 inch kit at the front and also the 4 inch
rear springplates.

I am hoping these will be fitted this week , so I will let you know how it rides once
fitted.........I don't expect it to be any worse than it was before!!

 

[Reto]

I have recently ordered both the 4-5.5 inch kit at the front and also the 4 inch
rear springplates.

I am hoping these will be fitted this week , so I will let you know how it rides once
fitted.........I don't expect it to be any worse than it was before!!

Would love to hear from you if it´s fitted! :shock:

Don´t you think 4 inch at the rear is too low?? Just thinking about if the 3 or 2 inch spring plates are the best choice for the 4-5.5 front kit...??

Reto

 

[Matt Maz]

Would love to hear from you if it´s fitted!

Don´t you think 4 inch at the rear is too low?? Just thinking about if the 3 or 2 inch spring plates are the best choice for the 4-5.5 front kit...??

Reto

I will certainly let you know once fitted.

I don't think it will be too low.....the red9 campervan has the same set up and it looks like an awesome stance, I hope they dont
mind me showing the pictures they emailed me -

 

[cunning plan]

Good thread, be interested in opinions and ride review..

 

[steve92]

im down about 3 inches all round thanks to red 9, and the ride is very good.

 

[ant]

Hi

I've got ww dropped spindles, red9 narrowed beam and red9 easyrider kit.

Unfortunatly its not all fitted up yet. The red9 coilovers will give you better ride than going down on beam adjustors.
As for the dropped spindles.... its all been said really, the reason i got them is i wasn't happy with the angle on the ball joints when the bus was slammed.

If you check my thread later in the week i'll post a pic of my beam built up with the coilovers/dropped spindles etc.

ant

 

[Sittingonthedockofthe BAY]

Red 9 on mine adjustable coil overs no dropped spindles,very comfy )

 

[Nic B-C]

Id be a bit more concerned about other things than is it a comfortable ride.

heres the third failure in our club on a system that is fundamentally flawed in its engineering design!!!!!

Just thought id share my experience of Red 9 front suspension on a bay.

I was driving home from work last night when the bus suddenly lurched to the left and hit the road with out warning. After it came to a grinding halt in the gutter i jacked it up to discover the upper ball joint had completely sheared. This is due to the fact that it had been sitting at the end of its travel and under strain. As there appears to be no long travel ball joints available for a type 2 and the red 9 spax coil overs are as high as they can go i can see no safer option but to go back to a stock set up maybe with a slightly adjustable beam and drop spindles.

Im just wondering how many other people have experienced the same issues with this kit ( 4.5" drop )

Luckily i was on a quiet road , wouldnt like to think what it would have been like at 70mph on the motorway!

 

[Graham L]

Nic

Thanks for the post and glad you are OK and I hope your bus isn't too badly damaged, out of interest when you say the third in your club which club are you referring to?

I've not heard of any failures of the Red 9 stuff so was somewhat shocked when I read your post, was this with the full kit fitted (ie removal of the sprung leaves and their replacement bar installed?) or just with their coilovers fitted?

 

[cunning plan]

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[ant]

This is why i've got dropped spindles fitted using them the ball joints are in stock position... gotta pic some where

Id be a bit more concerned about other things than is it a comfortable ride.

heres the third failure in our club on a system that is fundamentally flawed in its engineering design!!!!!

Just thought id share my experience of Red 9 front suspension on a bay.

I was driving home from work last night when the bus suddenly lurched to the left and hit the road with out warning. After it came to a grinding halt in the gutter i jacked it up to discover the upper ball joint had completely sheared. This is due to the fact that it had been sitting at the end of its travel and under strain. As there appears to be no long travel ball joints available for a type 2 and the red 9 spax coil overs are as high as they can go i can see no safer option but to go back to a stock set up maybe with a slightly adjustable beam and drop spindles.

Im just wondering how many other people have experienced the same issues with this kit ( 4.5" drop )

Luckily i was on a quiet road , wouldnt like to think what it would have been like at 70mph on the motorway!

 

[MrRed9]

Hi Nic,

Thanks for your post. Very professional way to do business.
I look forward to speaking with you in the near future.

This is exactly why we do not get involved with forums.
I have just had this forwarded by a prospective Customer which makes me look like an idiot.

Is it in warranty?
If so i will come and have a look at it, wherever you are.

However, I'd like to tell you a little story that happened to me about 3 weeks ago.
Driving our Passat on a country road, it suddenly veered off into the middle of the road.
I thought i had a puncture, however, when i got out and checked the car the bottom wishbone had broken through the middle of the ball joint.
Recovery was a nightmare!
Of course the first thing I did was write to Volkswagen and tell them their engineering was fundamentally flawed (NOT)
Apparently this is quite a common occurance. The recovery men had seen loads and GSF sell quite a few wishbones, too!

Anyway, I await your call

Regards
Simon

 

[faux]

Hi Nic,

Thanks for your post. Very professional way to do business.
I look forward to speaking with you in the near future.

This is exactly why we do not get involved with forums.
I have just had this forwarded by a prospective Customer which makes me look like an idiot.

Is it in warranty?
If so i will come and have a look at it, wherever you are.

However, I'd like to tell you a little story that happened to me about 3 weeks ago.
Driving our Passat on a country road, it suddenly veered off into the middle of the road.
I thought i had a puncture, however, when i got out and checked the car the bottom wishbone had broken through the middle of the ball joint.
Recovery was a nightmare!
Of course the first thing I did was write to Volkswagen and tell them their engineering was fundamentally flawed (NOT)
Apparently this is quite a common occurance. The recovery men had seen loads and GSF sell quite a few wishbones, too!

Anyway, I await your call

Regards
Simon

Hi Simon....just in case you do venture back on here. :lol: Don't ever take things read on a forum personally.....easier said.

I think Forums are important, they allow people from around the world to discuss their passion and gather ideas and advice. However it is open to problems. People can make statements which are unfounded etc but you would have to be pretty stupid to not gather as many facts as possible and take posts with a pinch of salt.

I recently had a very similar conversation with Dave Palmer and he was very annoyed by forums and did not really have time for me because I represented a discussion from Earlybay......but after 30 minutes of persuasion Dave talked with me about our ideas etc.

I can see it from Simons point of view, but at least a forum allows people to post their experiences, it can give others the opportunity to set the facts straight. If you want more info on a product you can then call the manufacturer.

Onto the subject of Red9 product. There must be pro's and con's to all modifications to OG spec suspension....ball joints will have excessive wear if lowered beyond their designed use. So unless going for a mild drop, dropped spindles will help this. Anyone who has a failed ball joint on a lowered bus can only blame the fact that they lowered their bus without taking ball joints into consideration.....I can't see what it has to do with Red9 or any other manufacturer.

I went down the King and Link pin route as I wanted to go quiet low, and I'm sure there will be negatives for this route too.

I really like the work of companies like Red9 and Creative because they go at it with a engineering process. They love VW's as much as anyone on here and have put more into the scene than most. It is unfair to make a real judgment on a product unless you have the qualifications to do so, but it would also be unfair if people weren't allowed to talk about their experiences.

I like the look of the Red9 kit, and paired up with their narrowed beam and dropped spindles I think this would be a great piece of kit.

Just to add my last thought! Why couldn't you add Red9 coilovers to a adjustable beam which would give you a fail safe on the suspension...add a king and link pin set up and the chassis is your limit...just an idea :lol:

 

[cunning plan]

Hi Nic,

Thanks for your post. Very professional way to do business.
I look forward to speaking with you in the near future.

This is exactly why we do not get involved with forums.
I have just had this forwarded by a prospective Customer which makes me look like an idiot.

Is it in warranty?
If so i will come and have a look at it, wherever you are.

However, I'd like to tell you a little story that happened to me about 3 weeks ago.
Driving our Passat on a country road, it suddenly veered off into the middle of the road.
I thought i had a puncture, however, when i got out and checked the car the bottom wishbone had broken through the middle of the ball joint.
Recovery was a nightmare!
Of course the first thing I did was write to Volkswagen and tell them their engineering was fundamentally flawed (NOT)
Apparently this is quite a common occurance. The recovery men had seen loads and GSF sell quite a few wishbones, too!

Anyway, I await your call

Regards
Simon

Hi Simon....just in case you do venture back on here. :lol: Don't ever take things read on a forum personally.....easier said.

I think Forums are important, they allow people from around the world to discuss their passion and gather ideas and advice. However it is open to problems. People can make statements which are unfounded etc but you would have to be pretty stupid to not gather as many facts as possible and take posts with a pinch of salt.

I recently had a very similar conversation with Dave Palmer and he was very annoyed by forums and did not really have time for me because I represented a discussion from Earlybay......but after 30 minutes of persuasion Dave talked with me about our ideas etc.

I can see it from Simons point of view, but at least a forum allows people to post their experiences, it can give others the opportunity to set the facts straight. If you want more info on a product you can then call the manufacturer.

Onto the subject of Red9 product. There must be pro's and con's to all modifications to OG spec suspension....ball joints will have excessive wear if lowered beyond their designed use. So unless going for a mild drop, dropped spindles will help this. Anyone who has a failed ball joint on a lowered bus can only blame the fact that they lowered their bus without taking ball joints into consideration.....I can't see what it has to do with Red9 or any other manufacturer.

I went down the King and Link pin route as I wanted to go quiet low, and I'm sure there will be negatives for this route too.

I really like the work of companies like Red9 and Creative because they go at it with a engineering process. They love VW's as much as anyone on here and have put more into the scene than most. It is unfair to make a real judgment on a product unless you have the qualifications to do so, but it would also be unfair if people weren't allowed to talk about their experiences.

I like the look of the Red9 kit, and paired up with their narrowed beam and dropped spindles I think this would be a great piece of kit.

Just to add my last thought! Why couldn't you add Red9 coilovers to a adjustable beam which would give you a fail safe on the suspension...add a king and link pin set up and the chassis is your limit...just an idea :lol:

Really well said dude,

. I am glad Nic has highlited the issue with the balljoints. This has not put me off buying a Red9 kit, it has just increased the amount of research I will do to ensure the balljoints dont fail on mine in the same way. - Exactly what a forum is intended for I think.

 

[THE LAST PANZER]

Hi i'm also thinking of lowering my bus and even though i don't claim to be a fountaian of of knowledge on all things VW it hasn't put me off getting a red 9 kit.

However i would like to know more about the link pin and red 9 kit combined, does anyone have this set up and what is it like.

One last note i have been in business for many years and thing somtimes go wrong and have found that when this happens people are quick to let everybody know how bad you are but when things go right you normally get a ' cheers mate thats great ' and thats about it.

So don't worry red 9 there are lots of people who understand the position your in and i'm sure will be willing to use you.

 

[Reto]

Thanks for the input.

I´ve just ordered a red9kit package for front and rear end. 4-5.5" front and 3" rear. I will let you know if its shipped to germany 8) and how it works. :wink:

Reto