Upgrade to 1776 or deal with it?

[Merlydog]

Just got back from a long weekend in swanage for which I've covered some serious miles. It's only recently that the lack of power has started to really bug me! My 36 dellorto upgrade last year kept me happy until now, but after this last trip I'm tempted.
What I don't want to do is open a can of worms and start gearbox issues & upgrades, brake disc conversions and all that jazz. Hence my title, should I just crack on and except what I have, a solid reliable lump that never lets me down, orrrrrrr, spank the dollar and start a money pit?? :lol:
In all seriousness those impartial folk that have driven both, is it really worth the upgrade, does it need a gearbox gearing upgrade, drum brakes with servo suffice etc? What do ya say boys? :mrgreen:

 

[terrier man]

Yeah you would be looking at a gearbox upgrade & better brakes sorry to say Sarah if your going 1776 with your Dells & a hottish cam you'll be looking at about 90bhp so you'll notice the gains alright, so what's up with your engine then I go down Swanage way a couple of times a year with no probs I know it's only 90 odd miles from me but I go over the Mendips no probs towing & I'm running 100% stock. :?

 

[sparkywig]

 

[Lordain Volley]

:lol:

 

[sparkywig]

To be honest Sarah, I'd go with brakes first, then steering, gearbox and then engine.
Or save your money for food and drink.

 

[petegee56]

Go for the upgrade you won't regret it. Dont worry about gearbox to start with, brakes you should probably do

I have sent a pm too

Pete

 

[Merlydog]

Yeah you would be looking at a gearbox upgrade & better brakes sorry to say Sarah if your going 1776 with your Dells & a hottish cam you'll be looking at about 90bhp so you'll notice the gains alright, so what's up with your engine then I go down Swanage way a couple of times a year with no probs I know it's only 90 odd miles from me but I go over the Mendips no probs towing & I'm running 100% stock. :?

Eh up! Nowt wrong with what I have at all, I just want a bit more power I didn't want to have to spank on other things though tbh. I wouldn't bother with the disc conversion I don't think, seems a lot of money. I would fit a servo though for sure! It's over 400 miles for me plus all the crusing I've done down there I've clocked up the miles :mrgreen:

 

[terrier man]

Yeah you would be looking at a gearbox upgrade & better brakes sorry to say Sarah if your going 1776 with your Dells & a hottish cam you'll be looking at about 90bhp so you'll notice the gains alright, so what's up with your engine then I go down Swanage way a couple of times a year with no probs I know it's only 90 odd miles from me but I go over the Mendips no probs towing & I'm running 100% stock. :?

Eh up! Nowt wrong with what I have at all, I just want a bit more power I didn't want to have to spank on other things though tbh. I wouldn't bother with the disc conversion I don't think, seems a lot of money. I would fit a servo though for sure! It's over 400 miles for me plus all the crusing I've done down there I've clocked up the miles :mrgreen:

Oh just thought you were down on power. :lol:
Yeah I might go with a remote servo maybe add discs later when I stroke the engine. Bugger the gearbox I just want torque I'm happy doing 60/65 mph.

 

[Bryan67]

If your trans is good now then you will be fine. Another 30 or so horsepower won`t hurt it. It`s not like you will be doing burnouts and drag racing it right? Disc brakes are a good thing even with a stock motor but I don`t really see a need for a booster with drums. Although I`ve never driven a Bus with power brakes before.

 

[Shorty]

I am in the process of doing exactly what you describe.... Building a 1776cc motor and I will be upgrading to disc brakes also...

After my westy there was no way I was going to stay stock 1584cc, I don't want to go fast, I just want it to be a little easier to drive and not be worried about the next hill when I've got a load on board!

The others are right though, it's a can of worms alright! but I expected that, and was indeed looking forward to the engine build before I started..

I'm not bothering with a gearbox change at the moment, if necessary, this can be done later, but with the extra power I am going to upgrade the brakes... futbus discs for me...

just my 10p worth!

 

[weeboll]

a much cheaper alternative would be to get the heads ported or stick as41 heads with bigger valves on for a good few extra horses and nothing like the cost. if your up for splitting the case (or getting it split) then you could also put a mild cam in there for some more gain. and make sure you have a good exhaust on the back.

my 1600 already spits out 80+ bhp with the above mods and a pair of dell 40's

gearbox is fine though a new clutch was called for as the old worn one was slipping

drum brakes still do me fine - i only use the extra power for keeping up/overtaking on motorways and getting up hills. if your going to drive everywhere with the foot to the floor thats a different matter! and you need a 2332!

 

[Merlydog]

a much cheaper alternative would be to get the heads ported or stick as41 heads with bigger valves on for a good few extra horses and nothing like the cost. if your up for splitting the case (or getting it split) then you could also put a mild cam in there for some more gain. and make sure you have a good exhaust on the back.

my 1600 already spits out 80+ bhp with the above mods and a pair of dell 40's

gearbox is fine though a new clutch was called for as the old worn one was slipping

drum brakes still do me fine - i only use the extra power for keeping up/overtaking on motorways and getting up hills. if your going to drive everywhere with the foot to the floor thats a different matter! and you need a 2332!

Hmmmm that sounds like a plan weeboll, no I'm not looking for crazy power increase. Just not to feel that sluggish struggle up the hills and inclines on the motorways. What sort of dollar does that cost then weeboll?

 

[baron]

I just bit the 1776 bullet, complete with reconditioned gearbox. pulls like a train, cruises like a dream

still got to sort the brakes... REALLY need to sort them out, that extra 10mph approach speed to the roundabout makes ALL the difference :shock:

cost me a bloody fortune mind, but it drives like a modern car and will keep me happy for a lifetime. after 10 years, was starting not to enjoy driving my underpowered bus

pays yer money, takes yer choice innit

 

[rockandrollcamper]

I just bit the 1776 bullet, complete with reconditioned gearbox. pulls like a train, cruises like a dream

still got to sort the brakes... REALLY need to sort them out, that extra 10mph approach speed to the roundabout makes ALL the difference :shock:

cost me a bloody fortune mind, but it drives like a modern car and will keep me happy for a lifetime. after 10 years, was starting not to enjoy driving my underpowered bus

pays yer money, takes yer choice innit

Hi, hope you don't mind me hijacking but I also plan to go down this route. I've had a rough estimate from a specialist close to me (the closest at least) and I'm looking at £3300 for a brand new turnkey 1776 with a hot cam which should put out 90bhp? How does that compare with yours? Also did you make any changes to the ratios?

Feel free to pm if you'd prefer
Cheers
Nigel

 

[baron]

I just bit the 1776 bullet, complete with reconditioned gearbox. pulls like a train, cruises like a dream

still got to sort the brakes... REALLY need to sort them out, that extra 10mph approach speed to the roundabout makes ALL the difference :shock:

cost me a bloody fortune mind, but it drives like a modern car and will keep me happy for a lifetime. after 10 years, was starting not to enjoy driving my underpowered bus

pays yer money, takes yer choice innit

Hi, hope you don't mind me hijacking but I also plan to go down this route. I've had a rough estimate from a specialist close to me (the closest at least) and I'm looking at £3300 for a brand new turnkey 1776 with a hot cam which should put out 90bhp? How does that compare with yours? Also did you make any changes to the ratios?

Feel free to pm if you'd prefer
Cheers
Nigel

There's brand new & brand new. I paid a lot more than I planned, but in end see it as an investment. I added all my existing peripherals (dizzy, prog carb & turbo muffler exhaust) to a brand new 1776 from VWHeritage built with all new components on a race spec case which cost a penny under £3k. So total spend more than that including labour, not actually had final bill yet...

I'm prob closer to 80bhp. Twins & free flowing exhaust will give me extra 10bhp. Not fussed with hassle of twins, but will swap exhaust at some point.

No point doing all this on a stock ratio early box, seriously, none at all. Used to have a torquey 1641 with 110 cam that screamed its nuts off on motorway. So cleared another £1k plus on reconditioning my box & adding higher final ratio.

Drives like a dream, stops like an oil tanker!

Bloody van only cost me price of engine, that was in 2000 though

 

[K@rlos]

All depend how you drive IMO, if your senseable with a more power well maintained drums will be fine. My mate had a 3.0L Porsche motor in his 66 samba with stock brakes and he still alive :lol:

My big motor has snow balled big time, always had a nice senseable 1776 in mind, but that soon developed into pokey 1955 and is now set to be a killer 2110 :msn4: Costing serious £££ in parts but my engine builder reckons 180hp will be well within reach :mrgreen:

 

[Merlydog]

Thanks for all the replies guys really appreciate your views. I think in the short term one thing your all agreed on is the brake upgrade. Before I spank £1k on futbus discs I'm going to try fitting a servo to the stock drum brakes and refresh all the parts in place already. Having read a few threads on the upgrade now the general opinion is drum & servo does the job.
Then I'll give Laurie Petitt a call and ask how much for the upgrade to the engine already in situ. Initial enquiries suggest less than I first thought but as you all seem to agree arms and legs grow quickly once you start! :lol:

 

[weeboll]

i forget exactly what i paid, think it was around £200 for a port of my twin port heads and the cam was stuck in when i had the engine originally built (1600 single port - again with ported heads)

it helps that GAC are just down the road and they are the masters of porting heads for formula vee race cars

WB

 

[67panel]

graham still got that 1836? might be a cheaper option .needs a strip though cos it got oil starved on start up when it was fitted to his new bus.made 90hp on the rollers 8)

 

[ZedBed]

You know what I think. :lol:

I've never enjoyed driving a bus on a motorway much before, but it just sucked the miles up today.

Mild 1955 LP wasserboxer crank special. No idea what power, but just right.