anyone running red9 wishbone kit?

[Graham L]

So many issues with such an expensive bit of kit. I really dont see the appeal personally. A good narrowed beam and set of quality shocks and your sorted, much less grief :mrgreen:

Not knocking the tech, but im out. :mrgreen:

Agree completely Ez, just dont get it and you cant run low as the A arms have to be a set length to work so you are at standard width.

 

[easy]

So many issues with such an expensive bit of kit. I really dont see the appeal personally. A good narrowed beam and set of quality shocks and your sorted, much less grief :mrgreen:

Not knocking the tech, but im out. :mrgreen:

Agree completely Ez, just dont get it and you cant run low as the A arms have to be a set length to work so you are at standard width.

8) keep it simple is the way forward. I put my weedeater on years ago, dropped spindles with coil over shocks and they have been touched since. No messing, smooth running and performs like a dream :mrgreen:

 

[slammedkustom]

I agree a well set up van can drive well but its very rare to find a steering box set up that feels right. ive driven hundreds of vans in my time and very few have given me confidance regarding there front end. so many have shonky boxes, knackered drag links and wobbly pivot pins.
the reason I went for the kit was it got rid of many of the bays weak points mentioned. also a steering rack is a massive improvement over a box. 65mph I can take my hands off the wheel and the bus runs straight.
I wont drag up old arguments but the kit can do with some tweaking to get the best out of it. the steering rack gaitor problem was down to the bolts used. if people want me to show you what I did about it I will. just let me know.

I think a lot of it comes down to what you want your bus to do, ive had slammed vans and its not what I want now. a slammed van will be fine for some but im after a bit of comfort now. also the kit has massive amount of adjustment but these aren't race cars so its a bit wasted
because of illness I was having issue driving my bus. the steering rack conversion made a big difference and adding power steering makes it a dream to drive.
next up a servo. on a side note im using the t25 bevel box not the new version.

just got back from my mot on the bus, felt good to drive it again

 

[slammedkustom]

also bundy id look into shorter brake pipes or trying to find a better solution. not knocking what you have done but you really cant take chances with brakes.

when I fit narrowed beams on bugs I often use golf brake pipes as they are slightly shorter and stop the issue you having with your bus.

 

[Mags]

So many issues with such an expensive bit of kit. I really dont see the appeal personally. A good narrowed beam and set of quality shocks and your sorted, much less grief :mrgreen:

Not knocking the tech, but im out. :mrgreen:

I know its horses for courses but I'm sure when I started to price up a new beam, dropped spindles and all new parts it wasn't too far away from the cost of the Red9 setup and then I would have been left with the horrible steering box. I'm more than happy with the Red9 setup now it has a proper bevel box, the ride and steering is fantastic.

 

[bluenose]

Post up what you did to get around the gaitor eating prob, I'd like to see

Some of the attention to detail lets the kit down, they're such simple probs which could be designed out I don't know how they have allowed it. Someone said the designer was an aerospace engineer? I'm officially scared of flying now!


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[slammedkustom]

ok, heres what I did. ive had my set up for 7 years although I haven't used it as much as id like the last few years.
ive had to change the steering gaitors a few times as the lower wishbone bolts are constantly rubbing on them.
as I was looking under the bus again this year I was thinking I cant just keep changing them and needed a long term solution. when I got into it I found another problem....

the allen bolt used by red9 has a large nyloc nut which is the problem. there just isn't the clearance for it. I looked into finding a dome headed bolt or something similar but nothing is available in the size or the strength needed
the wishbone mount measures about 85mm across but the bolt supplied isn't long enough to cover this distance on the shaft, you don't want moving parts running on the threaded section but that's whats happening here.

I spoke to a couple of nut n bolt specialist I know and found the right size bolt. had to order an entire box from the Netherlands, not cheap but not much choice! now if you don't know bolts have different strength ratings. you can buy a cheapo bolt which will be maximum of 8.8, you can also get much stronger spec 10.9 and 12.9. I couldn't find or they don't make the size I needed in 12.9 so im using 10.9. T25 use 10.9 and they are heavier and vw did all the research so im confidant with the 10.9 spec. the red9 kit is very much like the T25 set up anyway.
have a look at the site re bolt strength
https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/materials-and-grades/bolt-grade-chart.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

this is the wishbone mount



and these are the bolts. the top one is the one in the kit. the bottom one is the new one I bought. you can clearly see the difference in shaft length... no sniggering now :lol:



I took a flap wheel and a file to the new bolt just to take any sharpness off the edges. I didn't go too mad just rounded it off



here you can see the rounded bolt, a stock new one and the one supplied in the kit. the nyloc is quite large



I fitted the new bolt the opposite way round so the head end is by the steering gaitor rather than the threaded end. the good thing about this is the old one slid out as the new one slid in. meaning all the washers stay in place
so I went from this



to this



there is more clearance that it looks like in the last pic. the bolt head isn't touching the gaitor anymore and I do have the option to knock a little more off the top if needed. hopefully that will solve this little problem.
I used the nyloc and washer from the kit on the other end and fitted a slim washer under the bolt head
im probably going to change all the bolts on the wishbone mounts as they must all be running on the threaded section rather than the shaft of the allen bolts.

one thing I must make clear is you cant just put any old bolt in. if you do what ive done then please check the strength rating of the bolt used. any bolt not up to the job will simply shear in half. so keep it 10.9 or above and for god sake don't use stainless steel. might look pretty but its not strong enough.
if you want to change them as you have had the same problem as me I do have a big old box of them now so pm me if you need them.

finally im viewing this as rectification rather than modification. its a pity it wasn't sorted in the beginning but im not going to open that can o worms again.

hope you all understand my ramblings

cheers
C

 

[Graham L]

Good solution Chris

10.9 should be fine it's what VW use on most of the suspension components anyway from rear hub carrier bolts to damper bolts so I can't see it being a problem.

 

[Bundy]

slammedkustom....I'm running 4-pots with braided pipes now, but agree they were a tad too long.

I'd like to say that despite the niggles I love the set-up and is one of the best things I've done to the bus. I have been using it pretty much daily for the last 2 years and it makes the bus a delight to drive.

Cheers
Al

 

[slammedkustom]

Good solution Chris

10.9 should be fine it's what VW use on most of the suspension components anyway from rear hub carrier bolts to damper bolts so I can't see it being a problem.

cheers for the vote of confidance graham. im kinda belt n braces when it comes to enginnering. 10.9 is more than enough but as there were no markings on the allen bolts I wasn't sure what they were.

bundy, glad you sorted it. ive seen some real horrors in my time regarding brakes (and welding,steering, suspension etc etc!)
got to agree the ride is very good and once I stuck the power steering in its awesome. better than my daily but not half as fast!

 

[bluenose]

Good action, I will pm you to buy a hand full of them bolts if I can as no doubt I have same prob

I'm not keen on the use of socket bolts in the kit anyway, if I ever have to remove the beam no doubt they'll be full of crap, a mare to get off and risk rounding out.

The bolts should have a rating on them though, normally on top very small on a socket head, if not that is cause for concern.

Can't believe u got power steering on it to, living the dream! I did wonder if I could get an EPAS into the shaft that joins bevel box to rack so it's out the cab. What's your setup?


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[slammedkustom]

couldn't see any markings on the allen heads. like you say though the heads do fill up with gunk!

re power steering I went with lite steer. I actually went down to the workshop and worked it all out with neil as I knew there would be problems. it always felt like the steering oscillated or wasn't going round more like an oval at the bottom. I thought it may need a bearing in the lower tube as it now had a coupling to a bevel box rather than going to a steering box via the rubber coupling. when me and neil got my set up apart it turned out the coupling that attached to the bevel box was welded together on the piss so it would never run true! that's another issue I had to deal with but we got it on the lathe and neil managed to re-weld it with only 0.5 run out which it pretty much bang on. no more oscillation!

because I knew I would run into problems and lite steer hadn't done a wishbone set up at the workshop before we both agreed it was best to do it at his place just incase we ran into issues. so glad I did! we started at 930 in the morning and apart from half an hour for lunch we didn't stop. finished at 9 that night! neil can do them on his own in a few hours!

in short power steering rocks, neil is a top guy to deal with. very knowledgeable and we just worked thru the problems
I drove home, happy but tired, one hand on the wheel and the other holding a mug of coffee to keep me awake!

blue nose if you or anyone wants some bolts they own me about £1-20 each. ill be at volksworld if it helps