Diary of a virgin (engine rebuilder) - still signs of leaking..

[Termite]

Here are pictures of the four cylinder heads. I've taken a picture of the back of the head where the guides are, the combustion chambers and then a close up of each individual chamber.

Cylinder Head A










Cylinder Head B - this has a VW recyled stamp in it












Cylinder Head C - This also has a VW recycled mark on it












Cylinder Head D

 

[Termite]

Which (if any) of those 4 heads are reusable?

If none of these are, then there's two on an engine I haven't stripped down yet, plus the two on my van engine. I can't believe out of 8 cyclinder heads I won't be able to get a working pair out of them

 

[atafonso]

They all cracked, so not really useable. They work, but the crack between the seats will loosen a seat at some point and the crack between the seat and spark plug can throw the plug. Ideally you need another set of heads.
Abel

 

[Termite]

B*llo*cks.

Loosen a seat at some point - are we talking 200 miles or 20,000? I was hoping to put this engine back together on a budget and just get new bearings for it, really just as an exercise of building an engine and putting it in the van as the current one clearly has issues and won't run properly.

If I need to go down the new head front, then I think I might as well buy a brand new engine. There's no point getting just new heads, so will need to get new barrels and pistons. Then if that's all new, what's the point of putting it onto a case that will need the adapter to fit the moustache bar, a crank and case that hasn't been align bored or ground/polished?

Expensive this VW malarky! :mrgreen:

 

[atafonso]

I understand your point, and agree with you.
Buy the bearings and gaskets, piston rings and put this together using the heads with crack between the seat and plug. Measure the volume of the chamber and make sure both sides are the same. Use a compression ratio of max 7.2:1 to run cooler. It will work ok for a decent amount of time and give you the oportunity to gather parts for another engine, maybe a new one.
The lifters can be reused if not excessively worn, maybe post a pic and we can tell you. But even worn, they last a long time due to the high quality material, sometimes even outlasting new aftermarket ones, unbeliavable. Hope you marked their original position when disassembling?
Abel

 

[Termite]

Yes, that is one thing I did do. The old piece of cardboard with a hole cut in it trick to remember what part of the case they came out of.

 

[Termite]

I'm half tempted to get the top-end rebuild kit from VW Heritage. I had it in my head that a complete head with valves etc.. was around £280 each, so finger in the air pricing made me think I'd be close to a grand with everything needed.

Looking at their site, the rebuild kit is around £450, so with the bearings, new oil pump, new oil cooler, clutch plate etc.. I need, I think I'll be looking at around £650 all in.

Any opinion on their rebuild kit? https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/043198001/top-end-rebuild-kit-1600cc/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Or is it cheap for a reason? Am I better off just going with what I've got as an exercise to seeing if I can actually rebuild one first?

 

[atafonso]

Using a new top end will put more strain in the bottom end, and if not within specs it will accelerate the wear and can have problems. IMHO, i would stick to the initial plan and build another engine later with proper parts and a case that has the mountings for your Bus. Use this one as a learning curve, on the next you will avoid some mistakes and be better aquainted with the ACVW. Just my £0.01.
Abel

 

[Termite]

Fair point, thanks. Even with new bearings etc.. on the bottom end the wear will be accelerated? I"d kind of talked myself into a new top-end rebuild kit at lunchtime :mrgreen:

 

[atafonso]

If the crank measure ok, it will still be tight for a long time, depending how clean it will be inside the engine, new or used oil pump, etc.

 

[Termite]

Good to know as it's beginning to lean in the direction of that top end rebuild kit. Reinspecting the heads last night properly and I haven't got two heads that are usable with matching valve sizes. I'm assuming that matters to keep the engine balanced?

The set of pistons I have are 3 Brazilian pistons with some 040 barrels, and one german piston I assume in a 341 barrel. The german one has no rings on it and I am hoping I might have just picked the wrong one up out the box in the garage. If I've not got a matching set of 4 pistons, I am assuming that will also cause me problems? (they are the same size, just 1 is a different make).

I think I'm going to have to strip the other 1600 engine I have up the workshop down to see if one of the cylinder heads on that is usable. If it is, then there should be a set of barrels/pistons on there I can use as well.

When I originally looked at both engines and measured end float and did a leakdown compressions test on each cylinder (admittedly not really a fair test as the engines haven't run for 20+ years), the AB case which I currently have in pieces had good end float (0.11mm) and not as good compression (20%/25%/35%/25%). The AD case which has been previously refurbed by VW as the case has the mark on it by the engine number had 0.22mm end float and 15%/18%/15%/couldn't measure the last due to pulled helicoil.

So I picked the AB one to take apart as the end float was better and I thought I had a better chance with it.

Failing that, there's still the buggered engine in the van that might have a cylinder head on it I can use. But at this rate I will have 3 engines in bit and nowhere to store them!

 

[atafonso]

If i were you, i would only spend money in an engine with the Bus mounts. The adapter is not ideal as it shuffles the case with the vibration and most of the times also leak from the oil pump.
Yes, you need all the pistons to be the same because they can have different weights, different ring thickness, sometimes different distance from the pin to the top and also some are flat, some dished. Same with the barrels, if they are from a different set, some could be longer, or worse, different height from the case hole to the head sealing surface.
Regarding the heads, when they differ you can have different combustion chamber shape, volume, ports, valve guides, cooling fins, etc. I have seen an engine with smaller valves on one side and bigger on the other :shock:
These engines are fantastic, they would run, but not balanced and efficiently.
When stripping more than one engine, take some precautions as to always number the heads, pistons, barrels, rods, rockers, pushrods and lifters. Also keep all the parts separate from the other engines.
Only a suggestion :mrgreen:
Abel

 

[Termite]

Thanks for the advice. Everything gets merticulously labelled, so I'll make sure the other engine's parts are seperate. I shall see what tomorrow brings when I strip the other engine. MIght even find the case is ok as well on that one and find myself in more of a dilemma!

 

[Termite]

So.. I tore down the second engine this weekend. Took 7 hours yesterday to remove everything and split the case, then a few hours today degreasing and cleaning (it still needs a second degrease and clean, the engine was smothered in oil.



Unfrotunately the heads on this were cracked as well in the usual places (are there ever any heads that aren't cracked??!!)

This engine is an AD case and had previously been rebuilt by VW as the case has a VW stamp with the recyled arrows around it. I can't work out exactly what they've done to it though as I measured the case on the thrust bearing journal and it was a standard reading. Maybe the crank has been reground, but I need to split that down to measure it. The two lifters that have fallen out have been put back through a piece of card (along with the others) so I know where they go to match the cam!



On this case, there is a plate that I have not seen before (pictured below). It appears to be covering a large hole that has been drilled in the case in the sump. Any idea why/what it's for?



The case needs machining as the bearing journals have a very obvious ridge where the shell bearing goes. Bearing in mind what's been said previously that it's only worth putting money into a case with bus mounts, I agree with this and I think it's worth doing it to this case. Any idea what sort of cost getting a case cleaned and align bored is? It's probably worth getting one of the cranks done at the same time. What sort of cost is that?

However, I am now in two minds whether to get this case machined, buy new bearings and a top-end rebuild kit. Or just try and sell the lot and buy a new engine. At the moment I have the best part of three engines in bits and would make a good autojumble! :mrgreen:

 

[Termite]

I found a price list on The Engine Shop (http://www.theengineshop.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false for machining..

£69.95 for an aline bore
£79.99 to regind a crank
£19.99 to full flow the case


I'm based in Croydon and they are in Erith, so not a million miles away. There's also a place called Bensham Engineering Ltd in Bishop's Road Croydon that do engine reconditioning who I am going to give a call tomorrow to see if they can do VW cases.

Anyone recommend anywhere else?

 

[Termite]

DIdn't get very far with Bensham Engineering as they apparently shut down a few months ago!

I've found another place more local than TES called SRS Engineering in Sutton. I'm going to give them a call tomorrow and see what they say regarding VW cases and if they've done them previously.

 

[atafonso]

That engine has a new case as VW stopped reconditioning cases in the 70's, they reground crank, cam, and reconned heads but used new cases. That plate is to make the case suitable for a type 3 engine, so is definitely a new case and universal.
Give a call to Robert Parry, he does a great job with the align bore, he's done over 15 cases for me and they were all great. 07935 935179
Now you are talking, this is a great base for a solid reliable engine. Get this case align bored, get the STD crank and rods from the other engine and get a new top end. You will have a decent reliable engine
Abel

 

[Termite]

Great, glad you approve!

I'm off to put the case in the boot and strip the cam that came out of it. I'll have a quick measure of that and compare to the original crank that came out the 1300 and pick the best one to take a long with me to see if it needs griding/polishing.

Then I am off to TES tomorrow (gave them a call earleir) in Erith as it's only an hour's drive to see about getting the case align bored. Everyone I called locally either couldn't do it or recommended someone else that could do the case but not the crank.

I've read a few horror stories or bad reviews about TES from 7 or 8 years ago, but a couple of people within those typical "new engine's buggered" thread have said their machining is good. One of them an editor of a mag who a mate of mine used to work for, so I thought I would give them a try.

 

[Termite]

Ok, looked at the two flywheels I had today as well. One is a 200mm wheel, the other a 215mm. I will need to get a new clutch kit for whatever wheel I go for, but one of them will need to be refaced I think as they are both rusty. I can one refaced for £50, but which one do I choose?

I don't know what gearbox I have in my van currently, e.g. whether it is off of an early or a late.

 

[atafonso]

Just a suggestion; choose carefully where you take to machine your parts
Do some research, then you can make a well thought decision :mrgreen: .
Abel