Engine's out!

[The Monkey Bus]

So we took our rather leaky engine out last week and then started to strip it down. So far we have found lots of oil, rust, sheared tinware screws in the head (actually I did that ),one of the exhaust studs has been partially hacksawed through, various nuts missing including on the crankase. A couple of the valves seem to be sitting slightly proud too.

The photos don't make pretty viewing (unless you really have a thing for oil and carbon. Hey don't knock it, as long as it's in the privacy of their own homes and no animals are harmed who are we to judge)

Oil filler (or some form of tarmac in this case)

I think messrs Bodgeit and Scarper have been working their magic on this engine.

Oooh that doesn't look very good does it. I wonder what the other side is like.

Oh. Bugger.

Anyone else manage to spot the tiny oil leak? But I'd like to take my hat off to VW for how well this engine ran even though it seems that someone has been filling it with bitumen instead of oil, and seemed determined to sabotage any hope of it running.

As we got further and further down and all the jobs that we'd have to do started to pile up we were thinking maybe we should just say sod it and get a new engine. I know we could replace bits and clean bits up and one part of me would love to do that so I can keep the original engine, but by the time we've forked out for it all and spent the time it just doesn't seem worth it. So we are looking for a slightly bigger one, nothing too mental. Just something that will make hills a bit easier.

So, any recommendations for engine suppliers? Anyone any experience of The Engine Shop? Alternatively, we were wondering about taking advantage of the exchange rate at the mo to grab ourselves a bargain from the US.

I've got more pics of the removal if anyone is interested. I'll stick them up when I get a minute.

Go on admit it. At least part of you wants to cover your hands in all that oily sludge. No? Just me then :roll:

Sprouty
Sludge tamer to the stars

 

[Anonymous]

Jesus! I can't believe that ran! 8)

Go on fix it, you know you want to! :lol:

 

[currylager]

I think there was more oil on the outside than on the inside :lol: I bet there was no service history on that one!. You might be better off sourcing another engine to get the van running again and perhaps rebuild that one as a spare, might take you a year to clean the parts :wink:

 

[Fraggle]

Good work dude!!

Looks like fun

 

[Justin & Muttley]

Mmmmmm carbon!

To be honest I'm disappointed with your defeatist attitude - just give it a going over with a baby wipe or two and bolt it back together... job done!


Seriously though, I'd be tempted to put all the bits in a big tub of parafin, check what you'll need, and rebuild it as time/funds allow (especially if it's the original engine)...

Whatever you decide - thanks for giving us a laugh! :lol:

 

[Loxy]

If it was running ok when looking like that then just imagine how well it will run when its cleaned......

 

[aggri1]

Hey, if one rebuilds an engine with new pistons, cylinders, heads, etc, (anything that can be replaced), leaving really just the crankcase and the two shafts, how much is it still the 'original engine'?

If it were my bus I'd probably not refer to it as the 'original engine' I think.

What are people's thoughts?

Back on the topic - if you don't want to rebuild it yourself, can you just get it done by someone? Especially if you'd be possibly buying a (new) motor anyway.

Whatever the case, have fun!

A.

 

[Justin & Muttley]

Hey, if one rebuilds an engine with new pistons, cylinders, heads, etc, (anything that can be replaced), leaving really just the crankcase and the two shafts, how much is it still the 'original engine'?

If it were my bus I'd probably not refer to it as the 'original engine' I think.
..

I would consider it to be the original engine if you reused the original case - after all it's stamped with the engine number and all the other parts (poss crank excepted) are considered as consumable items!

It's an age old question though - we're back to Triggers Broom! :lol:

 

[VWAIRCOOLED]

Apart from the obvious internal and external oil leakage,it looks like it was running with a good fuel ratio and correct timing.I am rebuilding an engine at the moment,it is quite time consuming though.Most of the cleaning can be avoided if you're replacing parts anyway.The heads would probably go again,replacing the valves would be a good idea.

The main concern really is that the crankcase and crank is good.Check that first and go from there.If it's shot you can still get it repaired,just takes longer and costs more.

I like doing the work myself personally it's quite fun.As for wether it is the original engine.Yes it is still ,engines are made to be repaired and the bit that makes it original is the crankcase with the engine number.All else is down to wear and tear and repairing.My opinion anyway.

 

[Loxy]

Hey, if one rebuilds an engine with new pistons, cylinders, heads, etc, (anything that can be replaced), leaving really just the crankcase and the two shafts, how much is it still the 'original engine'?

If it were my bus I'd probably not refer to it as the 'original engine' I think.

What are people's thoughts?

Back on the topic - if you don't want to rebuild it yourself, can you just get it done by someone? Especially if you'd be possibly buying a (new) motor anyway.

Whatever the case, have fun!

A.

How many people can claim to be running the original engine if that is the definition?
As J&M said I reckon its basically down to engine block.
If you applied that rule to the body/chassis how many people would be driving round using a chassis number that wasnt original cos they had replaced so any panels/chassis members?

 

[The Monkey Bus]

Cheers guys. You've persuaded me. I'm going to keep the engine and rebuild it slow-time. It would be criminal to give up on the original engine. After surviving for 35 years it seems only fair that I don't give up on it the first sign of trouble.
Btw I reckon as long as it's got the crankcase then it's original.

VWAIRCOOLED, before the oil started pouring out, as opposed to just the stead drip, the engine was running like a beauty. I reckon it was tuned pretty well. The plugs looked like it had been firing ok and they weren't even that oily either. We'll check out the crankcase first before we decide for sure what way to go.

So for now we are still in the market for a new engine. Not sure what we'll do once the original is up and running again, maybe stick the other one in another bus that we will no doubt buy just so we have somewhere to put the engine :roll: But then I'll have another spare engine!

Anyone know any decent engine suppliers that they'd recommend? And any tips of things to avoid?

Blimey I'm going to have some fun in the garage this winter!

H

 

[carole]

where's you sense of adventure gone?

bit of Jizer and an old toothbrush and it will be fine.

These old VW's go on forever...... :roll: :roll: :wink:

 

[The Monkey Bus]

where's you sense of adventure gone?

bit of Jizer and an old toothbrush and it will be fine.

These old VW's go on forever...... :roll: :roll: :wink:

Any time you and your old toothbrush are passing feel free to drop by and join in the cleaning party

There'll be cups of tea in abundance and I may even crack open the chocolate digestives. But don't tell Mike, he gets very possessive about his biscuits.

:wink:

 

[VWAIRCOOLED]

A tip for cleaning the engine parts quickly is to spray some alloy wheel acid on the parts brush it in with a paint brush let it soak for a couple of minutes and then wash it off thoroughly with hot water,preferably using a high pressure jet wash,then you will have nice clean parts 8)

 

[carole]

VWAIRCOOLED stop being so sensible, it's so much more fun with a toothrush, and soooo good for your fingernails too. Us girlies luv getting dirty fingernails.

tell Mike I'll bring my own biccies, looks like you might need a few packets :lol: :lol:

carole :wink:

 

[Tintop]

My 'original' engine had been upgraded to a 1641 twin port, this engine died recently (suspected broken crank).

I sourced and fitted a single port 1584 (just to get the bus running again). Quick, easy and cheap. Runs absolutely fine goes up hills better than my 1641 did.

The 1641 was revy and ok but the 1584 has much more pull.

PLANS:

I'm either going to:
a). rebuild my 'original' engine, 1641 or could go upto an 1835 without any serious machining.

b). save up and put a subaru in.

c). think/talk about it (a lot) and end up still running the 1584 single port for years.

Do what feels right, just remember you can change your mind later on.
What about this to get you up an running quickly: http://forum.earlybay.com/viewtopic.php?t=4015


PS. at least you won't have any rust, due to all the oil/bitumen.

 

[erin-rae]

wooo, looking at those pics is like re-living the weekend all over again (shudders). Luckily we have a bench-top parts washer (citrus degreaser and a small wirebrush) and me with a monica-complex (I know I can get that bit shiny... I know I can). Might be on the look-out for a near knackered dishwasher soon!!
Plenty of black goo, but not 'arf as bad as what yours looks... ugh! Valves needing repalcing and whatever else is worth it while we are there. I envisaged me sat under the Christmas tree with a toothbrush and a lap full of parts , but am feeling more optimistic now...
Feeling for you... :wink:

 

[The Monkey Bus]

Cheers mateys for all your tips/condolences/pi$$ taking (yes Carole I am talking about you).

We've decided that we are still going to have a go at doing something with it but very very slowtime. We took it to Gary Angell Racing who came very highly recommended by a few people at Spirit of Air, our local club. He only does VWs and Audis, mainly VW vans from what I could see. He said that we may be able to salvage some bits, possible the crankcase but he couldn't guarantee how long it would last and that it would definitely impact on the reliability of the engine as a whole. Also it would be more work to try and rebuild that one rather than him just building us an engine from scratch.

So he's going to build us a 1776 with whatever we want on it. We're probably going for twin 34s, full flow oil system with cooler, maybe a deep or wide sump, he fits engel camshafts as standard, the rest we'll decide later. He's going to blast and then powder coat all the tinware and fan housing. It's going to be a few grand and take a couple of months but it'll be worth it. 8)

Come on hills, bring it on!

H

 

[erin-rae]

Am sure you will be happy with the result, and so will your camper! Hills will be a piece of cake!! Perhaps we could get a tow??? :lol:

 

[The Monkey Bus]

Fixed it!

It's now got a shiny new 1776, with original oil cooler mount, dipstick, and tinware (newly powder coated though). All the rest is new.

Still haven't decided what to do with the old leaky engine yet. It's still sat on the garage floor in bits feeling very sorry for itself.