Help i need drop spindles!!!

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freddie

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I have been told by a few people that becuase my bay is so low and only on a cut and welded beam i should have drop spindles as my balljoints could break any day now and cause a serious accident/damage....

Who are the cheapest supplies?

And are my balljoints really under as much stress as i am told? :(

Freddie
 
dropped spindles on your existing beam would not alter the geometrey of your ball joints, your beam needs modification, cutting & turning back to original height or the equivelent of 3.5 inches above your desired ride height, fitment of dropped spindles would take the front down without stressing the ball joints.
 
freddie said:
I have been told by a few people

do you mean the thread you posted in 'general chat' on volkszone ?

:?

are you new to all this lark ? if you aren't you'll know the old saying about building engines...

cheap
powerful
reliable

perm. any 2 of the above; you can't have all three ;)

i believe a similar set of rules apply to *slamming*

cheap
low
safe

the lower you go, the dearer it's gonna get, unless you compromise safety somewhat :|

my 2p's worth, for what it's worth :roll: would be to google type 2 detectives and give paul medhurst a call... tell him 'the councillor' sent you... he'll put you straight...

after all, if you needed a heart transplant you'd be on the phone to papworth, not asking about your options on cardiozone.com*

"good luck"

8)





*absolutely shit analogy i know :oops:
 
Thankyou people, i am only 20 years old, i know nothing much technical about slamming!

T2d cut and turned my beam pretty damn low, and then johnstone autoworks did it a bit lower.... why didnt they tell me it was unsafe? :(

I am a student and cant afford a lot, are you telling me drop spindles wouldnt do anything for me as my beam is cut and welded?

Whats the best soloution then? New beam?

Im so poor and my bay is my daily :( :( :(

Freddie
 
to put it dead bluntly, because it's friday night and i want to watch the telly with mrs councillor (ho hum) imagine looking at your bus side-on. you have two arms, one above the other, they pivot at one end where they go into the beam, and at the other end where they are attached to the spindle by a balljoint. this is literally a ball and socket joint, which is designed to operate within a set of angles which it would normally encounter going up bumps and down pot-holes with the suspension set as it left the factory, back in the day when these things were just designed and then driven as they left hannover. and then a bit of extra, to allow for extra big bumps and extra deep pot-holes. and then a bit more what with them being german and all that.

the angle these arms start at in relation to the horizontal is governed by a pair of bolts, screws, call them what you want, in the middle of each tube. by cutting either side of this and rotating the centre section, you change the angle of the arms, and either raise or lower it depending which way you turn it.

had the p.o. had adjusters welded in you wouldn't be in this 'mess' but that's by the by.

because it's been turned and welded you have no adjustment. slight problem.

because your centre section has been turned so far, yes it's made for a low ride, but you're taking the balljoints out of the parameters for which they've been designed, and this will lead to increased wear, a lot of clunking and in the worst case failure, but this is a pretty rare occurrence (i.e. i've never heard of it happening (in the real world not what some bloke at some club reckoned on the internet once))

dropped spindles are a different thing altogether... again being quick all a welded bus spindle is is the bit where the wheel bolts on being chopped off, moved up a couple of inches and welded back on again... the bus is now 2 inches lower still but it doesn't change the angle your trailing arms or indeed your balljoints are operating at.

get it ?

if you had adjusters you could theoretically raise it a couple of inches to lessen the extreme trailing arm angle and the stresses on your balljoints, then add the dropped spindles to bring it back down to the same height, but you can't do that because you don't have that adjustability.

i can't advise you further i'm afraid... i'm being whistled :roll: plus i'm a thinker and a typer rather than a do-er so it seems... i've been working on my interpretation of a slammed bus for 3 years now... never gonna finish it, but i hope the above is of some use to you.

a ridiculous amount of crap is spouted about low buses on the internet; bear that in mind and you'll be alright ;)

freddie said:
T2d cut and turned my beam

skeleton.jpg


:oops:
 
I'm suprised either of these performed a cut and twist.....

to be honest its stronger than relying on adjusters but then if its not right for you then your Fubar'd which is the point your at now.....

any chance of a few pics to refresh the memory, how low are you running? looking low on your avatar...

get some pics of the trailing arms.......

if its as bad as that then a cheap stock beam and start again with adjusters....there 10 a penny for rust free imports at the mo...
 
freddie said:
I have been told by a few people that becuase my bay is so low and only on a cut and welded beam i should have drop spindles as my balljoints could break any day now and cause a serious accident/damage....

Who are the cheapest supplies?

And are my balljoints really under as much stress as i am told? :(

Freddie

I think you read it wrong, you were asking about going lower - but your balljoints probably won't let you.

No drama, no need to panic just yet. ;)
 
Gotto agree with Araon, get a new / second beam and then either go with adjusters or drop spindles. Might also be worth getting new ball joints pressed in if your that concerned.
Do you have a friendly garage local that could have a look?
 
Cool thankyou people, i think i understand now.

Joval i was asking about going lower, but then was sidetracked by people telling me about balljoints :lol:

This is a picture of exactly how low my front beam is...

zz.jpg


Took some more pics. i will get them on tomorrow hopefully...

I think my next step as i am so poor is to buy some hardwearing balljoint from SSP?

I agree that when i can afford it i should probably start again from scratch with drop spindles/an ajuster!

Thanks again

Freddie
 
freddie said:
I think my next step as i am so poor is to buy some hardwearing balljoint from SSP?
Freddie

You can get long travel ball joints for beetles but I'm pretty sure that only stock type ball joints are available for buses.
 
TBH I would just keep a close eye on your balljoints and be happy at that height,
until the funds allow the further drop you want - any lower and it'll get expensive I reckon. :mrgreen:

As Loxy says - not sure if there are different grades of balljoint for a bay, unless you go for the T2D flipped jobs (for their spindles).

Coolair do balljoints complete with trailing arms on exchange, probably the quickest way to change them considering it's your daily.
 
As above just monitor them save your funds and the ballache of getting them out and new ones pressed in....
 
Cool thanks people :)

Joval i think you are right in saying i should be happy with the hight i am for a while :lol: Until i can afford to do it propperly!

I had a look at my balljoints today, and they dont look bad at the mo, the rubber isnt split or anything, i'll keep checking...

I spoke to a bloke yesterday with a slammed bay that bought "Meyle heavy duty" balljoints from SSP, they are only £15.00 each, so probably worth getting some of them soon as they can take a bit more stress!! Just need to find someone to fit them as apparently its bloody hard!!!

Cheers guys :) :) :)
 
ok, here we go again.

this probably won't end well, and i really should keep my nose out of tech. but i'm here now, and i can't let this pass.

there's no such thing as long travel balljoints for bays. true, there might be varying quality items out there, but they range (unfortunately) from shit to adequate, rather than from adequate to sensational.

the problem isn't with the balljoints per se, it's with the angle you're forcing them to work at because of the angle you've got your trailing arms set at... super heavy duty kryptonite balljoints won't save you... you will have increased wear and a greater chance of failure running your trailing arms at that angle, which will rise proportionally the more you use your bus.

*checking them regularly*

how are you going to check them exactly ? do you know the VW approved method for checking wear on a balljoint ? i REALLY don't want to come across like i'm preaching, but if you REALLY want to check the condition your balljoints are in, you need to disassemble your front suspension... checking the rubber gaiters for wear (although a good service idea in itself) won't tell you jack shit about the condition of the balljoint, in the same way that i queried another forum user's assertion that he was going to 'keep an eye' on his welded spindles... it's not that simple unfortunately... are you telling me that you're going to dismantle your suspension and check the tolerances in your balljoints every time you drive it ?

'cos that'd be mental.

it would be an idea

a) 'cos you seem worried
b) 'cos you're 20 and new to all this

for you to get hold of a proper service manual... bentley is ace... and immerse yourself in that for a while.

if you're scared of your balljoints failing, and they're pretty tough to be fair, then it'd be an idea to get them checked properly by a reputable garage... a new set of arms with fresh balljoints is like £100 or so... if they're knackered then it's an easy fix, like for like etc. etc.

then, you might want to start again with your beam, adjusters and so on.

none of this is cheap, but then it's 2009, and you want to be driving around in a radically modified classic vehicle... so you might reasonably have to expect to bite the bullet with expenditure once in a while.

also, as spiny so eloquently put it over on vzi...

*scrub lines*

you might want to research them a bit as well... 'cos i haven't been under your bus with a tape measure so this is only speculatory but it might just be barely road legal as it is, without you wanting to lower it any more.

food for thought etc. etc.

8)
 
no offence kidda, but this is a typical case of low is king, to the point of undriveability, is that a real word?

anyway you could modify your trailing arms, much cheaper than dropped spindles. they basically need bending at the neck of the joint carrier to compensate for their new 'lowered' angle. but you can't do this in your back yeard, unless you have a forge/furnace there? i did this on mine, not cos i had to, but cos i knew it would give me more joint play. this coupled with a set of dropped spindles and a cut'n'twist i have a nice low and very driveable van. this is the way forward; numerous little mods to make an overall big one.

to be honest if i was you, being only 20 a skint student and the cost of vehicle ownership/maintenance, especially an old bloody camper. i'd look out for a replacement beam. get it all back to stock, familiarise/learn about what you are doing/want and then take it from there when your situation time/finances allow. bit of a pain, but all very very solveable.
 
Ah Councillor, quite correct, however he doesnt really have many options, wasting money on new "hardwearing" ball joints aint really an option as hes still going to have to monitor the new ball joints....

He will need to get his hands dirty and keep saving for the time being, and set himself some service schedules, get very intrusive and yes he will need to splash out on a decent workshop manual but then surely driving one of these thats a given....

Personally I wouldnt want to ride in it must be teeth rattling, but then stock/very mildly lowered for me, enjoy the tech ability of some of the artisans out there and respect the engineering aspects overcome on some but then the majority its all about low at any cost which is just insane...
 

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