Oil filler / breather without drain tube

[Moseley]

Hi folks, I’d normally have a crack at playing around with this, but currently I am waiting for some parts, and the next journey I make with the van will probably be setting off on a short holiday.

So I recently purchased one of the aftermarket oil filler / breather things to replace the billet item that was on there previously. This was only done as it has a much larger breather outlet (20mm diameter as opposed to 12mm). When I first fitted it, I put it in the normal orientation with the breather outlet towards the rear of the van, but when topping up with oil, it just filled the breather section. Trying to be clever, I’ve rotated it so that the breather is at the top, but after driving around for a bit, I’ve found that the oil is pooling on both the nut and the lip where the assembly is crimped together. The oil on the nut doesn’t seem to be an issue, but the pool higher up is seeping out from the crimped join, and judging by the mess, it is doing it at a reasonable rate. Some pics (you can just make out the pool in the 4th pic):

I’m not sure how the internals of this compare to the standard item as I don’t have one to put side-by-side, but as there are millions of those still in use, either this is poor parts, user error, or a combination of both! Can anyone shed any light?

Failing that, I’m thinking of getting the billet one drilled and tapped for a similar 20mm fitting as there’s much less chance of it leaking and it was easier to fill with oil.

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[gas1man]

Hi Moseley,
I am more than likely making a complete *** of myself here but...
I know it seems strange thing but is the vented plate that goes on top of the engine between the filler tube
situated the right way round and when the oil is being splashed /thrown up in engine , it is going up the filler?

I remember being told they have to face a certain direction to prevent splash. Hope this helps a little.

J & P

 

[Moseley]

Hi Moseley,
I am more than likely making a complete *** of myself here but...
I know it seems strange thing but is the vented plate that goes on top of the engine between the filler tube
situated the right way round and when the oil is being splashed /thrown up in engine , it is going up the filler?

I remember being told they have to face a certain direction to prevent splash. Hope this helps a little.

J & P

Thanks for the reply - yes that is positioned as per Bentley (there is a photo in there) as I’ve not long fitted the alternator stand. Some of the oil you’re seeing is from when I poured it in, but either way, over time it seems there will always be a pool accumulate in both those spots as there’s nowhere else for it to go. I was going to cut some relief slots in the nut itself, but then realised that it was coming from the joint.

To be fair, it’s not going to surprise me if this is just poor manufacturing - the breather hose outlet connection has also broken free from it’s crimped connection. I guess I’m just trying to salvage some hope of making this work after buying the filler, cap, gaskets, nut and fitting tool all to just have the thing piss oil everywhere [emoji849]


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[ozziedog]

I’m trying , like you, to make some sense of this. It’s so long since I’ve had a stock filler, and I still done, I have similar to what you’ve taken off. From memory and from what I can see, it makes me think that this set up needs to be a tad / lot more vertical but I can’t get why it’s not ?

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,that dint really help much did it :mrgreen:

 

[67panel]

The only think that works properly that came from China is Covid!! I know billet part is most likely from same place . If you fit alloy one then to get it to work I would say it needs a breather box to separate oil from any fumes so they run back into engine . On the drag beetle we had rocker cover vents as well so small pipe was fine . Of course breather should be fitted so it points to O/S , even a OG one will pool oil around nut due to design .

 

[Moseley]

This is not the easiest thing to take a photo of whilst in situ...

Hopefully you can see that with the breather hose outlet positioned as per the original photos (in the 12 o’clock position), the opening into it sits around the 10 o’clock position. If this fills with oil over time, which it will, it will fill to the level at the bottom of the opening, and then any excess will drain back into the engine.

If I rotate the breather into the OG position with the hose outlet at the 9 o’clock position, the opening is now at 7 o’clock and when this fills with oil, it blocks it off entirely.

I’d be interested to see the internals of a standard item to compare. The oil sitting on the nut isn’t the issue, it is the oil sitting where the filler halves are crimped together - either it shouldn’t sit here, or the filler shouldn’t allow it to leak.


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[Moseley]

Took the breather / filler off the van yesterday to get some better photos:

I’d appreciate if someone with an OG filler could take a similar photo of the inside so that I can see where the opening to the breather outlet sits.


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[gas1man]

Mine faces the right closest to the air filter, 3 o clock position. I think yours has a slight leak if anything.
Cheaply made and untested. Seal from inside and seal overflow tube with steel weld or such like .
Oh mine is wet but does not leak or drip, I suspect it is gummed up. :lol: :lol: Sorry no photo.

J & P

 

[Moseley]

Mine faces the right closest to the air filter, 3 o clock position. I think yours has a slight leak if anything.
Cheaply made and untested. Seal from inside and seal overflow tube with steel weld or such like .
Oh mine is wet but does not leak or drip, I suspect it is gummed up. :lol: :lol: Sorry no photo.

J & P

Can’t get to the inside join unfortunately without separating the two halves!

Your positioning makes sense to me in that the breather opening inside the filler is at the top, so at least you don’t end up pouring oil into it when changing / topping up. But what I wondered is what happens when the breather area fills up with oil? It has got nowhere to drain to until it is full to the opening at the top? This is why I rotated mine so that at least the opening would be lower down and therefore would drain back to the sump before it filled and blocked off the breather outlet.

I’m just curious about the design and how it was supposed to operate when VW removed the down draft tube from the design!


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[K@rlos]

The repro tinware and fillers are crap. I have a genuine vw filler on my stroker with the tube cut off and welded up. The bit the pipe pushes onto is situated to the side of the cap, closest to the fan housing and the breather hose goes to the breather box on the fire wall along with a hose from each head and the fuel pump block off.

If your engine is stock And in good condition it will be fine with the pipe going to the air filter. The tube is a stupid idea which makes a mess, not all engines and models had it.

 

[Moseley]

The repro tinware and fillers are crap. I have a genuine vw filler on my stroker with the tube cut off and welded up. The bit the pipe pushes onto is situated to the side of the cap, closest to the fan housing and the breather hose goes to the breather box on the fire wall along with a hose from each head and the fuel pump block off.

If your engine is stock And in good condition it will be fine with the pipe going to the air filter. The tube is a stupid idea which makes a mess, not all engines and models had it.

Same as advised above, which puts the inner opening at the top of the filler. Thanks for confirming. I think you’re right about the quality, an OG filler is probably the right solution...

Out of interest, what stops your filler from filling with oil over time? Presumably some vapour condenses and runs back into the filler void before reaching your breather, but with the opening at the top, it cannot drain back to the sump until it is full?

 

[gas1man]

Finally found one.Hope this helps. Mine has a drain pipe that gets rid of excess if needed.

J & P

 

[Moseley]

Finally found one.Hope this helps. Mine has a drain pipe that gets rid of excess if needed.

J & P

Thanks for that. Makes sense if the breather openings are in the same positions as in that pic it would be at the bottom. But as the oil pools in the breather it will drop out of the draft tube, stopping the breather from getting flooded.

 

[ozziedog]

Not toooooo shiney then Mr Jonathan, that’s how to show off your engine bay.

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,, Nice, nice , nice, nice. :mrgreen:

 

[K@rlos]

The breather from the fuel pump And the filler are connected with a t piece so the oil drains back to the sump that way. My breather pipes and filler are never Full of oil so I guess it must work lol.

 

[gas1man]

Not toooooo shiney then Mr Jonathan, that’s how to show off your engine bay.

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,, Nice, nice , nice, nice. :mrgreen:

:lol: :lol:

J & P

 

[dubselector]

I went for a CB Performance breather tower, comes with blanking plugs if you don't need to use all the connectors. I have it connected to both air filters and petrol pump stand for positive crank ventilation, makes it easy to fill oil using small jug or one with flexi spout.

 

[K@rlos]

I went for a CB Performance breather tower, comes with blanking plugs if you don't need to use all the connectors. I have it connected to both air filters and petrol pump stand for positive crank ventilation, makes it easy to fill oil using small jug or one with flexi spout.

I’d shorten the pipe going to the pump block off mate, that droop will fill up with oil.

 

[dubselector]

Thanks Karlos, well spotted. I have shortened it since that pic as it was also getting in the way of the dipstick too.

 

[K@rlos]

Thanks Karlos, well spotted. I have shortened it since that pic as it was also getting in the way of the dipstick too.

Ah good. I leant the hard way many moons ago when I first started playing with VW’s and had a 1776.