WARNING FOR HORSE SHOE USERS!!

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crwbus said:
When using horse shoes, only 2 of 4 bolts hold the weight of the bus instead of 4. Apparently, they are not capable to hold that weight! The 2 upper bolts that are used to attached the wheel onto the springplate broke! Luckily I was only driving backwards on the driveway, but what if this happened while driving at 60mph on the highway with my girlfriend and my kids with me!?? Makes me shiver!
I hope this is a wake up call for anyone using horse shoes! Check these bolts, or use new ones!



 
Crwbus, you have nothing to apologise for.

Your post is far more useful for bay owners than most.

The only posts on here blowing things out of proportion are those posts claiming there was a need for calm :lol:

These posters, for reasons best known to themselves, claim to be calming a "situation" or thread that was, up until their post, a quiet and reasoned discussion about the possible disadvantages of some suspension modifications. Modifications that worked essentially because the usage of these vehicles was far less strenuous than they were originally designed to cope with.

VW bays served world wide and were successful because, at the time, other vehicles of this type, fell apart when used, often overloaded, on the rough and unmade roads of developing nations.

As a consequence of this, they might be considered by current recreational and hobby users to be over engineered.

By this I mean that if one were to run inverted ball joints and horseshoe plates with lowered suspension it would be unwise to then attempt to drive overland to South Africa for instance :lol:

So, zbed, the way I see it, you are imagining a lack of calm :lol:

Ps, maybe you could help transporter put his toys back ;)
 
TransporterHaus said:
ZedBed said:
Right, that's my once in a blue moon posting on here done. Enjoy your buses. :)

And you wonder why I stopped visiting earlybay a long time ago. Glad you're all experts :lol:

just crossed your spring plates off my list and put creative ones on, well done knob head
 
Well said trikky2.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 
TransporterHaus said:
And you wonder why I stopped visiting earlybay a long time ago. Glad you're all experts :lol:
Hi Alex,

EDIT: after re-reading my post below it may appear to come across as abrasive. This was not my intention at all so please accept my apologies if any offence is caused.

Instead of your pithy, throwaway line that some might conceive as insulting why don't you - with your engineering expertise - explain to people your opinion on the subject?

If you think people are misinformed then why don't you try and set the record straight? There are a number of users on this forum who I deem to be experts in many areas of our beloved vehicles and would take their advice on most matters without batting an eyelid.

If you, as one of the innovators in the lowering game, were to explain to the good people here your side of the story then I think you'll certainly help rather than hinder.


As a final note I have read this thread a number of times (when it first appeared and throughout the debate) and the thing that sticks in my mind is that the real issue under scrutiny here is not the horseshoe plates themselves but the bolts that are used to secure them

crwbus said:
I hope this is a wake up call for anyone using horse shoes! Check these bolts, or use new ones!

Can anyone advise what specification of bolt should be used when buying new?

- George
 
gvee said:
Can anyone advise what specification of bolt should be used when buying new?

- George

It's always wise to use high tensile bolts. For the few extra pennies they cost it seems daft not to use them.

There's plenty of info about bolts on the net. There's an article here http://www.qldcorvetteclub.com.au/tech/tech_talk/bolts.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; which is interesting.
 
it will say on the head what the grade of bolt that snapped was ? If like Zed says it was overtightened then i personally think being a mere engineer that the threads would strip first especially if it was a second hand bolt ..... using 12.9 grade bolts on everything is not recommended as when i was enquiring about new caliper bolts everyone said oh 12.9 only . yet the genuine ones from porsche were a 8.8 grade bolt . Are horseshoe plates and the red 9 coilover /wishbone set up TUV tested ?
 
Just catching up on this thread late after being directed to it from another thread on spring plates earlier, I think a little bit of hysteria is setting in here and I'm speaking from experience.

I had bolts shear on my bus last year on the way back from EBI on a country road at 50mph, the bus came to a halt after jamming the rear tyre against the arch. I put the failure down to the fact that we reused the original bolts when fitting them and the appalling state of the Belgium roads last summer which anyone that travelled to Belgium last summer will testify to. The original bolt spec is 12.9 HT and when ever fitting these or any other suspension modifications I would recommend fitting new bolts.

With regards to the comment as to why would you ever fit them thats simple, they retain the ride of a standard bus (just like dropped spindles on the front) and retain as close as possible the correct suspension geometry on the rear, adjusting the spring plates on the splines does neither of these, hardens the ride and puts the wheels at angles they were not designed to run at.

The comment that the weight is only taken on 2 bolts is also misleading, the hub carrier is lifted up and the horseshoe plate provides a pair of extra location bolts for the carrier itself but the carrier is still bolted on by 4 bolts as it was originally was. I nicked the picture below off another thread but it should illustrate the point



New bolts have only been used in some of the holes on this picture and it was only the original bolts that failed on my bus, I still believe that horse plates are a good cost effective way of lowering the rear end of a bus and work well with these on the rear and dropped spindles on the front.
 
Graham L said:


That's a nice clear photograph. It will enable people to make their own minds up.

Especially if they have experience with meccano.

There are some interesting new angles of leverage.

The ability of the spring plate to resist twist, for instance, has been reduced.

As I said earlier, lightly laden, running around on tarmac roads is not the same as fully laden (one ton) on poor or unpaved roads, which is what the stock vehicle is capable of.

Can't say I am wild about the way the handbrake cable is routed either.
 
Graham L said:
. I nicked the picture below off another thread but it should illustrate the point



New bolts have only been used in some of the holes on this picture.

How dare you steal my photo :lol: :lol: :lol:

I've watched this thread with intrigue and have concerns. I've also got a set of adjustable spring plates to go on and was planning to use both but don't know now. If I do leave the horse shoes on I WILL replace the bolts with new
 
Well if you follow what guys like Evil Ben do on the rear he uses a combination of adjustable spring plates and horse shoes plates again to retain rear wheel geometry but if going that low then you are really looking at notching the chassis which opens another can of worms :lol:
 
So, it seemed that I had jumped the conclusions a bit too early. At first I assumed 4 bolts had snapped. But after having taken a good look at what went wrong, it appears that only 1 bolt had broken. The one I drew a red circle around in this pic (which is not mine by the way):


Because of that, wheel hub (or how do you call it in english?) is now attached to the spring plate with only 1 bolt left. Result: the horse shoe bent! All the other bolts were still on their place, not broken and still tight! But apparently, the fact that the "hub" is only attached to the spring plate with 1 bolt, made the horse shoe bend (or did I mention that already? :))

The reason I did not post any reaction anymore was because some reactions really pissed me off. As if I don not know the basic laws of physics or car mechanics. Hate it when people are being sarcastic about it when they don't even know me. The only intention I had, was to warn people to make sure to use good bolts!

So before some people want to "attack" me again, keep in mind that I, first of all, do know mechanics/physics, and secondly I certainly do not have the intention to put this product in a bad daylight!!
Everybody makes mistakes and learns out of it. As did I in this case: use new bolts!

There...I said it...
 
crwbus said:
The reason I did not post any reaction anymore was because some reactions really pissed me off. As if I don not know the basic laws of physics or car mechanics. Hate it when people are being sarcastic about it when they don't even know me.
..

Having looked over this thread again I can't see any post attacking you. [puzzled smiley]

It is me that doesent like horse shoe plates for reasons I hope I made clear.
 
Trikky2 said:
crwbus said:
The reason I did not post any reaction anymore was because some reactions really pissed me off. As if I don not know the basic laws of physics or car mechanics. Hate it when people are being sarcastic about it when they don't even know me.
..

Having looked over this thread again I can't see any post attacking you. [puzzled smiley]

It is me that doesent like horse shoe plates for reasons I hope I made clear.

Sorry, should 've mentioned it wasn't on EB that I got these reactions.
I do respect your or any other person's opinion 100% about the horse shoes! So, no offence taken at all... ;)
 
crwbus said:
Trikky2 said:
crwbus said:
The reason I did not post any reaction anymore was because some reactions really pissed me off. As if I don not know the basic laws of physics or car mechanics. Hate it when people are being sarcastic about it when they don't even know me.
..

Having looked over this thread again I can't see any post attacking you. [puzzled smiley]

It is me that doesent like horse shoe plates for reasons I hope I made clear.

Sorry, should 've mentioned it wasn't on EB that I got these reactions.
I do respect your or any other person's opinion 100% about the horse shoes! So, no offence taken at all... ;)

:D
 
Looking at the bottom of the bolt where it's broken, there's a ring pattern which usual means fatigue. I might be teaching my granny to suck eggs here but fatigue starts from micro cracks, inherent in bolts due to the v shape of the threads. New bolts, high tensile (*NOT stainless) may have stopped this but If the bolts were loaded in shear as they are as standard you probably wouldn't have a problem with it.





*Edited due to fup up.
 
young_dubya said:
Looking at the bottom of the bolt where it's broken, there's a ring pattern which usual means fatigue. I might be teaching my granny to suck eggs here but fatigue starts from micro cracks, inherent in bolts due to the v shape of the threads. New bolts, high tensile or stainless may have stopped this but If the bolts were loaded in shear as they are as standard you probably wouldn't have a problem with it.

Sorry to intercede but its important.

High tensile yes.

Stainless NEVER on anything important or structural.
 
:lol:

Sorry chap. I left that in an edit I did on my phone this morning. The original post contained a long winded story of a friend of mine insisting that A2 was as good as mild steel 12.9 for his brake adapter bolts. I deemed it a ramble and edited it.......incorrectly it would seem. :lol: :lol:
 

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