bolt on and go faster barrels and pistons - advice please

[thru_a_lupe]

so if i wanna make my standard 1660 tp go a little better i can just bolt on some 87mm (1641) barrels and pistons yeah?!?
if so... which are better cast or forged?!?
who sells the better ones?!?
can i still run a stock air filter and vacuum dizzy with them?!?

Cheers,
Jon :mrgreen:

 

[dubdubz]

in a bay there isn't much to be gained by going 1641 - you'd be better off getting the engine to breath better by porting the heads and better exhaust, do you have twin carbs already?

GAC can port a head and get it to flow loads, couple that with decent fuelling, you'll get better results than bolting on 1641's

all in my opinion -

what you running now? in terms of carb and exhaust?

 

[thru_a_lupe]

cheers for the advice...
stock carb
stock filter
bluebird stainless single quiet pack

 

[dubdubz]

If you added twin carbs - not as cheap granted as 1641 but loads more power....

then if the engine is out you could clean up the cylinder heads yourself with a dremel, if you go slow it is easy. I'd also recommend a 3 angle valve job, as this get the sealing spot on.

I ran 1641's for a summer they did run noticeably hotter...not excessive as I had everything else spot on...but hotter nonetheless

is your ignition std? is there a big fat spark and dead steady? this will also help extract the ponies?

 

[Clem]

If you added twin carbs - not as cheap granted as 1641 but loads more power....

is your ignition std? is there a big fat spark and dead steady? this will also help extract the ponies?

Ive done this ^^

Twin Dellortos 36's and pertronix ignition/coil, with a bluebird pipe. Completley transformed the drive of the van. :mrgreen:

 

[dubdubz]

Ive done this ^^

Twin Dellortos 36's and pertronix ignition/coil, with a bluebird pipe. Completley transformed the drive of the van. :mrgreen:

cripes I do know something after all :lol:

seriously small twin carbs like these
http://www.dellorto.co.uk/merchandise/products_details.asp?PartNo=T1-SP-ICTkit&CategoryID=12&PartsectionID=48" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
would transform the feel as Clem says, do that first. Get the sparks right second. [ie do the most significant change first, esp if there's pennies to consider]

Also with std ignition in good fettle the twin carbs will still fly......

the benefit of dells like clem is they are good upto 2litre almost - so will work on a 1955cc should the desire take you, but work well due to their tuning parts down to 1600....

 

[Jimbly]

I agree - a pair of ICTs, especially on a single port, will give you loads of torque. If you can stretch to a pair of ratio rockers - I tried a set of Scat 1.25:1 recently - then you'll get even more. It'll pull like a train. Just make sure you get it set up on the rollers...

 

[mjknight71]

....fitted a set of these :mrgreen: .....http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-Type1-Type-2-Type-3-Beetle-Camper-Twin-Kadrons-Carbs-/160487228881?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item255dc8c5d1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

.......and electronic ignition :mrgreen: ....

...dont think it would work out more £££ than a 1641cc kit .....

...also dont 1641cc have thinner walls and therefore more likely to get 'hot' especially in a rolling brick

 

[creationblue]

I agree - a pair of ICTs, especially on a single port, will give you loads of torque. If you can stretch to a pair of ratio rockers - I tried a set of Scat 1.25:1 recently - then you'll get even more. It'll pull like a train. Just make sure you get it set up on the rollers...

I got a set of ICTs a Turbo Thomas S/S 'zorst, electronic ignition, a vac/mech advance dizzy (SP dont have these as standard), done away with the HXs and replaced with J-tubes, and got set up on the rollers to make sure the fueling was cock-on, the result was 54.5Bhp, but more importantly to me is that it pulls great thru the range. Im usually rolling 5 up with a trailer and the low down torque is fantastic. All for relatively small £££s.

Just

 

[thru_a_lupe]

cheers for all ya advice guys! looks like i need to look at different ways to get more ooomph than just bolting on different barrels....
btw... my lump is a twin port so dont know whether that changes things?!?!?

anyway...carbs are a little more pricey so may have to wait...
im off to order my adjustable springplates...at last!!!! :mrgreen:

jon

 

[bluelighttaxidriver]

Sorry to kind of hijack your thread, but I'm about to take the engine out for a winter project...
I'm thinking about the 1641 route too, but since getting the SSP catalogue (shiny things... ), have been looking at the 1:25:1 rockers too.
So, here's a (theoretical) shopping list advice request.... :?
If I get webber 34 ICT's, 1641 barrel & piston set, 1:25:1 rockers, C35 camshaft kit, and a Bugpack hi-rev spring kit....... What else would I need to get....?
The end float is shot, which is prompting the rebuild, so will be going down to that level...
Looking to end up with a reliable engine, that can go up a hill in at least third.......

 

[Jimbly]

I don't know what you'll get with the barrels, pistons and cam but on my stock 1600SP with an EMPI dual quiet pack, twin 34 ICTs, 1.25:1 rockers, Pertronix trigger, coil and leads mine went from 58lbft and 30bhp at the wheels to 80lbft and 50bhp. Not masses by today's standards but the torque increase meant it pulled from 1500rpm in any gear and chugged up hills perfectly. I flowed the heads slightly and got an extra 5bhp at the wheels later on. Hope that might help.

 

[dubdubz]

Don't bother with the 1641's ...they run hot and the money is better spent elsewhere imho.

Twin carbs are a must, or efi of course, decent flow,so thats bigger heads or porting etc.
The only 1st size upgrade thats easy is 1776, I've got a 1745...which will be around the same, but was a pain to build in relative terms.

 

[bluelighttaxidriver]

Nice one, thanks. Always nice to find out you don't have to spend as much...! It's a t/p by the way.

 

[gninnam]

I was toying with going the 1641 and twin carbs route, but this thread has made me change my mind about the 1641 so thanks
EFi sounds interesting to me - has anyone done this and how expensive would it be :?:

 

[dubdubz]

I was toying with going the 1641 and twin carbs route, but this thread has made me change my mind about the 1641 so thanks
EFi sounds interesting to me - has anyone done this and how expensive would it be :?:

Efi can be expensive, but as with anything, with research and ingenuity anything is possible. There's lots of parts, ecu, throttle bodies, throttle position sensors, crank sensor, electronic wasted spark ignition...

The ecu is easy relatively, megasquirt is DIY market based, crank trigger wheels are available readily...for me the hassle seems to be throttle body source + getting manifold with injector bosses, and if u make your own...how does the throttle position work...esp if you go with a twin carb look??

Shop talk has quite a lot of info, although speedshop also sells off shelf ecu afaik?

My view is what is the predicted mpg, with efi....low 30's ? With correctly set up twin carbs it wouldn't be miles away from that. So 5mpg better say over 5000 miles = 25 gallons less used =£125 approx saving...Efi would cost about 5-600 notes so it'd take awhile to recoup...although those with Dells could flog them to offset cost....

Bugger that's me searching efi again tonight :lol:

 

[gninnam]

A nice response my good man.

Soo, EFi can work out a lot more expensive for me as I don't have the twin carbs to then sell on, on the gains especially regards MPG and pay back are again not too good.
What about other savings - not having to re-balance/tune your carbs, sorting out jets....

Would, over time, the EFi route prove to be a godsend and give you a more reliable and in the long run, cheaper way to fuel the van - I have had mine for 5 years and anticipate having it at least another 5.....

Cheers

I was toying with going the 1641 and twin carbs route, but this thread has made me change my mind about the 1641 so thanks
EFi sounds interesting to me - has anyone done this and how expensive would it be :?:

Efi can be expensive, but as with anything, with research and ingenuity anything is possible. There's lots of parts, ecu, throttle bodies, throttle position sensors, crank sensor, electronic wasted spark ignition...

The ecu is easy relatively, megasquirt is DIY market based, crank trigger wheels are available readily...for me the hassle seems to be throttle body source + getting manifold with injector bosses, and if u make your own...how does the throttle position work...esp if you go with a twin carb look??

Shop talk has quite a lot of info, although speedshop also sells off shelf ecu afaik?

My view is what is the predicted mpg, with efi....low 30's ? With correctly set up twin carbs it wouldn't be miles away from that. So 5mpg better say over 5000 miles = 25 gallons less used =£125 approx saving...Efi would cost about 5-600 notes so it'd take awhile to recoup...although those with Dells could flog them to offset cost....

Bugger that's me searching efi again tonight :lol:

 

[dubdubz]

It might be possible to cobble together Ebay bargains and do it cheaper, there is the wait involved whilst waiting for the things to come up cheap. I think you can use motorbike throttle bodies, with some adapter plate to get it attached to say the CB manifolds with injector bosses....I'll add a link here when I find it!
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=321" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have seen mondeo EDIS systems butchered to work with Megasquirt, this is all in theory stuff as I haven't yet got into a definitive list of bits and therefore associated cost. The Trigger wheels are quite cheap, but they need to be attached to the pulley, again if you have a machinist mate all possible for beer money....I also believe that you can run Efi without TPS but not quite sure if that's true or not??

I may well give it a go now !

potentially your van will run smoother, ie carbs have the odd hiccup every now and then, and should be more economical overall, as I'm sure Efi is better across all rev ranges, well couple that with the fact you can tune the fuel /air / spark it should be pretty good.

bit of a hijack but relevant none the less

D

 

[greggholmes]

for reliability stay with the 1600 and balance balance balance. you can gain up to 10%-25% increase by balancing everything. and i mean everything. here is a link to read
Remember the 1600 is just a bored out 1300

http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/2006/12/one-engines-worth-of-parts.html
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/2007/01/dialing-in-your-cam.html
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/...-max=2007-08-01T00:00:00-07:00&max-results=15

"Volkswagens and sex have a lot in common, when you think about it.
But so does divorce and Volkswagens. The sad part is that the
record shows most VW owners are only interested in a joy ride
instead of a stable, long-term relationship.

-Bob Hoover"

 

[r73]

for reliability stay with the 1600 and balance balance balance. you can gain up to 10%-25% increase by balancing everything. and i mean everything. here is a link to read
Remember the 1600 is just a bored out 1300

http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/2006/12/one-engines-worth-of-parts.html
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/2007/01/dialing-in-your-cam.html
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/...-max=2007-08-01T00:00:00-07:00&max-results=15

"Volkswagens and sex have a lot in common, when you think about it.
But so does divorce and Volkswagens. The sad part is that the
record shows most VW owners are only interested in a joy ride
instead of a stable, long-term relationship.

-Bob Hoover"

good points and great links