Lowering Gurus wanted - The Gaz shock thread

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67westy said:
mi2itsdl said:
excellent thread. Been trying to sort out GAZ coilovers for some time now.

Trying to find out the correct height shock and poundage from the spring is tough.

I have an adjusted beam, t2d drop spindles and slam shocks (coilovers). On my second set of coilovers as the lower bushes were shot, now have a new set with polly bushes.

Although the t2d shocks are meant to be too soft, they are a hard to compress and fit, as the shocks seem too long. Had to use a flat piece of of steel to protect the wheel arch and a crew bar !!

The height between my upper and lower shock mounts is 15". How did you come to the height of 16" for the shocks, as I was reccomended 17" by GAZ.

Also, you seemed to have gained 1/2 an inch in height, was that on purpose, or is it just a case of winding them up a bit, to remove that distance?

Very interested in a set with 150 lb springs, if I can retain the same height and get full suspension travel.

keep up the good info.

I struggled fitting the T2S style shocks as well, as you said they were too long so I put the bottom eye on a trolley jack and then slid it from there on to the bolt.

I'm not sure how Graham came to the 16" figure (I guess he made the right measurements) but they seem about spot on for me. I wound the springs up quite tight to reduce the initial drop from the weight, I needed to do this as I think my beam was closer to the floor than normal due to the adjuster. If you back the spring off it should drop further as there will be less resistance.

Hope that helps some!

Love your work 67Westy. Excellent feedback but I'm not done picking your brain as aren't others.

So let me get this right, your set up is a stock balljoint beam with 3.5" dropped spindles and adjusters. You've got the 16" shocks with the 125p springs done up virtually all the way.

With the springs wound up, aren't the shocks travelling less and more pressure is applied to the springs? I'm just trying to figure out what the impact on the feel would be with the spring in a different position on the shock, apart from the obvious ride height.

Also, am I right in assuming there is still scope to lower another inch or 2, since your springs are wound up high?

And I'm not quite done yet, Graham has suggested he would consider a shorter shock yet if he had to buy again in the future. Can you envisage any problems with a shorter set up? eg. rubbing, fouling, beam scrape

Thanks :D
 
aspro said:
Love your work 67Westy. Excellent feedback but I'm not done picking your brain as aren't others.
No problem, happy to help if I can! Should probably point out again though I'm no expert and this is just from my experience and could well be total BS :lol:

aspro said:
So let me get this right, your set up is a stock balljoint beam with 3.5" dropped spindles and adjusters. You've got the 16" shocks with the 125p springs done up virtually all the way.

Yup about right, I'd say the springs are 2/3s - 3/4 of the way up so still some more there if needed. You probably also need to take the tyre size into account for any calculations you do. A larger tyre will raise the beam but decrease the gap between arch and tyre. A smaller tyre would do the opposite. I'm currently running 165/60/14s but would like to up this a bit for beam clearance and load rating.

aspro said:
With the springs wound up, aren't the shocks travelling less and more pressure is applied to the springs? I'm just trying to figure out what the impact on the feel would be with the spring in a different position on the shock, apart from the obvious ride height.

I think you're right, but I could be wrong :) Winding the spring up increases the ride height and would give a slightly firmer ride as the spring is preloaded (although I'm not sure how much). This can be fine tuned with the adjustable damper settings to make the rider firmer or softer. A stiffer spring would also give a firmer ride. Backing it off would lower the ride height and probably make it softer unless you adjust the damper setting again, personally I prefer it firmer but I guess it's personal preference :)

aspro said:
Also, am I right in assuming there is still scope to lower another inch or 2, since your springs are wound up high?

Certainly scope for it to lower some more although I'm not sure how much. I can try and take some measurements if I get a dry weekend soon (yeah right!). 1 -2 inches lower probably wouldn't work for me as the arch would be sat on the tyre I think :) Depends on how much beam and arch clearance you have.

aspro said:
And I'm not quite done yet, Graham has suggested he would consider a shorter shock yet if he had to buy again in the future. Can you envisage any problems with a shorter set up? eg. rubbing, fouling, beam scrape

Not quite, Graham was on about a shorter spring which I believe would be used with the same 16" shock (perhaps he can confirm). I guess this would give you a firmer ride again as there is less travel in the spring. If it was a shorter shock over all then I think you would be more likely to rub and catch the beam as you have a lower starting position.
 
You're a champ. :D Sounds like an excellent solution to stiffen up a lowered ride, with scope for adjustment and fine tuning.

Thanks again for the excellent feedback. Will get the missus to bake you some nice cookies next Lincoln meet up. :D
 
I'm still confused :?

so what are we saying is a good starting point? 16" shocks but shorter 150lb springs? and I guess what measurement transpires to be imprtant to working it out? I mean by that if my shock normal standing still measurement is X - does that mean I'm in need of a shorter shock spring combo?

I may just have to take 67westy up on his offer and travel a little north!
 
aspro said:
Thanks again for the excellent feedback. Will get the missus to bake you some nice cookies next Lincoln meet up. :D

Awesome, I love cookies :D

dubdubz said:
I'm still confused :?

so what are we saying is a good starting point? 16" shocks but shorter 150lb springs? and I guess what measurement transpires to be imprtant to working it out? I mean by that if my shock normal standing still measurement is X - does that mean I'm in need of a shorter shock spring combo?

I may just have to take 67westy up on his offer and travel a little north!

Yup, 16" 150lb springs, not sure about the spring length or what difference it makes. I was hoping Graham might see this and confirm. I can only think it makes it easier to raise up as the spring isn't under so much pressure. I guess it would change the feel of the ride slightly as well.

I think the measurement of 16" should be fine for most setups with the 3.5" dropped spindles as in theory the standing measurements should be similar (40+ years of wear and tear make a difference of course). I guess if your measurement is wildly different then a shorter combo may work better, I forgot to measure my standing measurement unfortunately.

You're welcome to come and have a look, only thing is the van goes away for winter at the end of this month or early next month so not much time :)
 
67westy said:
Yup, 16" 150lb springs, not sure about the spring length or what difference it makes. I was hoping Graham might see this and confirm. I can only think it makes it easier to raise up as the spring isn't under so much pressure. I guess it would change the feel of the ride slightly as well.
Graham? where you at :lol:
67westy said:
I think the measurement of 16" should be fine for most setups with the 3.5" dropped spindles as in theory the standing measurements should be similar (40+ years of wear and tear make a difference of course). I guess if your measurement is wildly different then a shorter combo may work better, I forgot to measure my standing measurement unfortunately.

You're welcome to come and have a look, only thing is the van goes away for winter at the end of this month or early next month so not much time :)

I'll try and get to it then - using mine as a daily so the front suspension is key to get right, moving house so cannot afford a full slamwerks setup [can't really afford shocks either!]...pm an approx postcode or area so I can assess travelling times etc... 8)
 
My understanding (so possibly wrong :lol: ) but shock length is a matter of travel. If you measure the length between the shock mount at full height, then at full compression (and add a bit) then that's the length and travel of the shock that you need. For a given amount of movement (travel) in the suspension, the shock length remains the same and higher / lower or softer / stiffer is then all about the spring rate and length (that's the tricky bit and where I ran into indecision before :roll: ).

So.... If 16" bodies are working for people then that's probably worth sticking with 8)

The springs are then a bit harder. Imagine if you fitted the shocks with no coils then dropped it back on the ground (ride height at rest) and wound the adjuster ring to half way before measuring the distance between the adjuster ring and the tophat at the, erm, top. Let's call it 8 inches (I've no idea if that's the right number, don't copy it!).
You could fit 8" 80lb springs or 8" 500lb springs and your bus would sit the same height at rest on both (because neither are compressed). But the 80lb ones would ride soft and the 500lb ones, well, wouldn't.
If you fitted longer springs at the same rates or wound the adjuster up, then you would raise your bus a bit as you are now preloading the springs. For the same increase in spring length / movement of the adjuster, the increase in ride height will be less on the 80lb springs because the spring compresses more easily than 500lb ones.
But even with the longer springs, the ride will stay the same as on the 8" springs - preload doesn't alter spring rate.
So here's the trick. The spring rate determines ride quality. If you find the right (comfy) rate, it's the same regardless of spring length or adjuster position. If your bus sits too low on your favoured rate, then you either need longer springs or to adjust the spring seat. Too high and it's shorter ones (or adjust the seat the other way). If you run out of spring seat adjuster movement (all the way to the top / bottom) then you've definitely hit the point of needing different length springs.

So... if 125lb is comfy and it doesn't rub on full bump, then it's the right rate. If it's mushy and hitting the arches on bump then fitting longer 125s won't do anything and you need stiffer (higher rate) springs. For the length, if there's still adjustment left on the lower seat and you're happy with the ride height then it's good.

All of that's the simple version (big note - my understanding of it, anyway :lol: ). There is one more bit about preload, which is that if you got the spring length / adjuster position right, you could dial out that initial sag you get when you climb aboard which would be cool but that's where things get tricky and I manage to get myself confused... :oops:
 
Hold out just a little longer Dubdubz. In the process of getting some info from Gaz. Have contacted them regarding our confusion and asked them if they could shed some light and make some recomendations. Stay tuned.
 
aspro said:
Hold out just a little longer Dubdubz. In the process of getting some info from Gaz. Have contacted them regarding our confusion and asked them if they could shed some light and make some recomendations. Stay tuned.

awesome great news - also it might help if we commit to so many units like Graham tried to do...I would be in if the price was ok and I knew it worked fine...

cheers
 
Hi yeah if anyone sorts out a group buy I would up for it (maybe in new year)? I guess as the shitty buyback coilovers fit on mine then they are the correctish length.
I suppose the thing to do is to whip em off and drop van down and measure mount to mount. I am 16st so I guess 150 springs for me! Lol!

Cheers!
 
I've just fitted a pair the same as 67westy but with 150lb springs. Just off for a test drive!
 
Pearls cafe said:
I've just fitted a pair the same as 67westy but with 150lb springs. Just off for a test drive!

Reviews, stats and opinion please. :D Looking forward to your response.
 
I only had a short test run as I had other things to do today and wanted to get the new shocks fitted while the weather was behaving.

My Westy is lowered using T'Haus dropped spindles and I had Bugpack coilovers which I was never happy with as it was a bit like driving on a trampoline and I regularly rubbed the tyres on the underside of wheel arch.

With the gaz shocks, the ride is totally different. Much firmer but not uncomfortable. Now able to take on speed bumps without fear. I did push the limit a bit and something rubbed when I was cornering at speed and hit a bump but this would not have happened if I had been driving normally.

Early days but so far I'm impressed.
 
Forgot to say that I set mine up with 10 clicks from minimum setting and 6cm from base of adjuster ring to bottom of screw thread. May be tempted to firm up a couple of clicks but will get some more use out of them first.
 
aspro said:
Hold out just a little longer Dubdubz. In the process of getting some info from Gaz. Have contacted them regarding our confusion and asked them if they could shed some light and make some recomendations. Stay tuned.

Not quite sure what they can tell you, I went through the whole process a year or so ago and the Gaz dampers came out with the best option for the best price, I used to hillclimb and sprint a caterham a few years ago so am well versed in the art of setting up dampers etc to get the best ride and handling etc.

The only reason I mentioned fitting shorter springs (and geeze is right on this) was I felt the current ones were a little too long compared with the damper body and believe a better ride/height combo could be achieved but have yet to try it. As I said I fitted 125lb springs to start with but feel the ride is better on 150lb springs.

I did try and offer these dampers nearly 18 months ago and no one would commit so its odd that this thread has raised so much debate so far down the line, perhaps I didnt shout loud enough at the time :? :? , I offered to lend my test set out and it was only Adam that ever took me up on that offer.

I'm happy to carry out some more testing and put more results up if it will help the EB community :) but Adam seems to be doing a good job.
 
Not quite true Graham :evil:
I said I`d have some, but I think there were only another one or two that would commit :roll:
And I`ll still have some mate if you sort some ;)

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Very very nearly actually met you the other day :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen:
 
Really good info in this thread.

Would be interested in some 16" shocks with 9" 150 lb springs if a group buy is setup.
 

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