Starter motor pickle!Or maybe the ignition switch...?!

[Olly the Ozbus]

Hi folks, back again like a bad penny!

Came out of work today and tried to sart the old boy and I got nowt- just a click from the starter solenoid......I'm pretty sure I have enough battery as the lights and all other electrics seem to have plenty of juice so I figured iot was the starter motor that was jammed :?

I tried to rock the bus when in gear (just by myself) and gave the starter a tap with a rubber mallet but to no avail- just wondering if there's a better way to un-jam the starter motor and if not if it is possible to push-start it? It's stuck at work for the night so hopefully it'll be there in the morning............

As usual, any advice gratefully received (Serve me right for being smug about fixing other stuff!)

Cheers

Olly (and his fecking Ozbus!)

 

[bertiethebus]

Id take another starter with you to work :mrgreen:
See if someone can try a jump start or give you a bump and see how it fares.
Mine buggered up last year and it was the brass bush,,,, after borrowing another starter off my mate and a 30 odd mile round trip,,, twice

 

[mister]

Make sure its out of gear, crawl underneath with a couple of screwdrivers and a torch, find the starter motor, put the tip of each screwdriver on the two contacts of the soleniod, bring the shafts together, you will see a big spark in front of your eyes :shock: and there should be a spinning noise, crawl out and try the ignition again, hopefully.....bingo!

Good luck!

 

[Olly the Ozbus]

Id take another starter with you to work :mrgreen:
See if someone can try a jump start or give you a bump and see how it fares.
Mine buggered up last year and it was the brass bush,,,, after borrowing another starter off my mate and a 30 odd mile round trip,,, twice

Wish I had a spare that I could go and swap at the dead of night, my workmates are going to have a field-day if they twig it's conked out! It only had a new starter a couple of years ago too.....I remember getting a card off someone selling cheap aircooled electricals at a show but I bet I've lost it

 

[Olly the Ozbus]

Make sure its out of gear, crawl underneath with a couple of screwdrivers and a torch, find the starter motor, put the tip of each screwdriver on the two contacts of the soleniod, bring the shafts together, you will see a big spark in front of your eyes :shock: and there should be a spinning noise, crawl out and try the ignition again, hopefully.....bingo!

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice matey- I'll get in early and give this trick a bash... fingers crossed for a bingo and not a no-go :mrgreen:

Cheers 8)

 

[Harlequin]

peters good for your vw electrical needs...
http://www.volksgoods.co.uk/index.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[67panel]

dont forget to check the earth lead on gearbox

 

[Olly the Ozbus]

dont forget to check the earth lead on gearbox

Hi mate, does this lead come off the cluster of wires that goes to the starter motor- there is a unused wire in this bundle but as far as I can remember there always has been although I could be speaking out of my @rse?!

I did the screwdriver trick across the terminals on the solenoid and as expected I did get a nice big spark and the motor did turn- however, still just a click when turning the key (and the idiot lights dimming)- I'll go and check the earth on the gearbox when I can sneak out into the carpark at work but does this sound likely to be a knackered starter motor?

Cheers

Olly

 

[67panel]

sounds like poor brushes ,the solenoide (speeling mistak!!!)earths through the brushes so that can stop it pulling in properly.also the terminals inside can burn out so can be any of these .did it turn over normaly when you used a screw driver .to test if its the ign swich at fault conect the spade terminal to bat feed ,the one on starter ,if it works ok then its switch/volts drop.fit a relay.

 

[Olly the Ozbus]

sounds like poor brushes ,the solenoide (speeling mistak!!!)earths through the brushes so that can stop it pulling in properly.also the terminals inside can burn out so can be any of these .did it turn over normaly when you used a screw driver .to test if its the ign swich at fault conect the spade terminal to bat feed ,the one on starter ,if it works ok then its switch/volts drop.fit a relay.

Yup, seems to turn over properly when using a screwdriver.....I'll try and check the igintion switch over lunch 8)

Cheers

 

[rallye dale]

The earth lead 67 panels refering to is at the back of the gearbox to the chassis

Its a big one braided copper if its original, you cant miss it, well you cant if its there !

 

[Olly the Ozbus]

Thanks chaps, definitely got the earth strap from the gearbox and I lashed up an alternative using a jump lead too so pretty sure that's not the problem.

Re the ignition switch, I took the spade connector off at the back of the solenoid and touched it against the nut securing the main feed to the solenoid and it did nothing- do I need to take a feed directly off the battery to test this? Apologies for being a thicko- for some reason the ignition circuit always seems to confuse me!!! :mrgreen:

 

[Olly the Ozbus]

Doh, after thinking about it I think you meant i needed to connect the terminal on the starter (not the spade connector from the ignition switch, which is what I did!) to the live feed........is this basically hot-wiring? I'm very innocent :msn4: I'll give it another whirl when it's light tomorrow........are there any other tests for the ignitition switch whilst I'm at it? I thought it was Ok as I was getting the click from energising the solenoid but it does seem as though the starter is fine and that the problems lies here :?:

Cheers oracles 8)

 

[ZedBed]

What you are describing is the same as shorting the terminals with a screwdiver which you already know works.
Your prob is that you aren't getting enough juice from the switch to the spade terminal on the starter. Could be crusty connection on the starter, old high resistance wiring, or poor connection in the ignition switch itself.
The infamous hot-wiring relay gets over all/most of these problems by sourcing 12v from the fat wire on the starter and sending it direct to the spade, using the original feed from the ignition switch to trip the relay.

 

[Olly the Ozbus]

Hi Zed, good to hear from you mate- hope all is well 8)

I realised after posting my confused drivel what the test for the spade connector was doing But...................I do still see some weirdness!

So, on the back of the solenoid there are the 2 main terminals (one with the live feed from the battery and one with a little earth strap to the starter motor itself I think) and the spade connector with the feed from the ignition switch......

If the I short the 2 terminals together the starter spins.....but, if I connect the battery feed to the spade terminal all i get is the click from the solenoid the same as when I try and start from the key :?

So I thought it might be the feed from the ignition switch but this would suggest otherwise....to me it sounds more like the brushes (as dave suggested) if it earths through these when starting from the ignition switch but as may be clear my brain doesn't always work so well :mrgreen: Whadya reckon?

At leats its at home nowthough- got a push start of some work mates :lol:

Cheers,

Olly

 

[ZedBed]

Hi Olly - wondered if that was you!
If it spins when you connect the screwdriver it can't be the brushes/motor itself works, it must be something that should be telling it to spin isn't doing - logic see?
What tells it to spin?... ^

 

[ZedBed]

...but, if I connect the battery feed to the spade terminal all i get is the click from the solenoid the same as when I try and start from the key :?

If you mean you're taking the battery lead off the starter main terminal and dabbing it on the spade it will only click because you just took the 12v feed off the starter.

 

[Olly the Ozbus]

Ello matey, it is indeed me :mrgreen: When I tested it with a 12v feed to the spade terminal I tried it with a`line directly from the battery and also independently by putting a bridge from the battery feed terminal on the solenoid- I didn't interfere with the main feed to the soloenoid to do either of these tests so was a bit confused when the starter didnt spin-hmmmmmmmmmmm :lol:

 

[67panel]

so its a faulty solinoid then ,prob burt out the contacts cos when it pulls in to engage gear it also hits a switch,or its not traveling far enough :roll: new starter mate :msn4:

 

[Olly the Ozbus]

so its a faulty solinoid then ,prob burt out the contacts cos when it pulls in to engage gear it also hits a switch,or its not traveling far enough :roll: new starter mate :msn4:

Cheers Dave, this makes sense and it looks like some more crawling arouind on the driveway for me..........unless I carry 3 students around to push-start me wherever I go :msn4: