009 vs svda??

[Tristan71]

Hi chaps what are the good and bad points of these dizzy s

 

[jonboylaw]

SVDA: The correct Dizzy for your engine, with the correct curve and vacuum advance for smoother acceleration and better fuel economy. This provides an advance curve Vs engine speed and load for best performance. Best to source an OG set-up. Vac Can may need overhauling.

009: A cheap, mechanical advance dizzy (advance vs engine speed), with a hole in the advance curve and a very steep step with a little more advance all in, fooling the user into feeling a power band. Used by cheap engine builders as a simple set up. This will feel like and on-off switch and not so progressive, fuel economy may also suffer. Cheap though.

I have the curves for several distributors if you need them.

Other options include electronic modules to replace the points, Dizzy based electronic mappable systems and crank fired fully mappable systems. Each of which offers their own benefits.


Just my opinion..

 

[Eeza]

Always assuming you have the correct Carb / Dizzy Combo. For example you will suffer using a Solex (Brosol) H30 / 31 with any SVDA. (Ask me how I know)

Look at what you have right now, then make an educated guess, it’s very likely you don’t have the original engine, carb / dizzy combo.

I had a 009 on my van and used with the H30/31 Carb it was fine albeit with the infamous flat spot. I swapped it out for an accuspark SVDA clone with an electronic set of points and it’s no better doh.

For a twin port I read that the 34 pict 3 / SVDA is the best combo.

What you got in there now buddy ?

 

[Tristan71]

It's a standard 1600 twin port with a pair of 36idfs

 

[K@rlos]

I had a 1600 with twin 36 IDF's and an OG Bosch 009, NEVER had an issue with it. I think a lot of people who slag off the 009 are simply covering up the fact they can't tune an engine...

Got an 009 for my new 2110 too, until I can afford a full MSD set up.

Karl

 

[jonboylaw]

Karl,
Out of interest, what is your budget for the MSD system ?

Jon


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[jonboylaw]

Karl,
Out of interest, what is your budget for the MSD system ?

Jon


Sent from my GX64 SatCom phone using Tapatalk

 

[KateLovesPurple]

I had a 1600 with twin 36 IDF's and an OG Bosch 009, NEVER had an issue with it. I think a lot of people who slag off the 009 are simply covering up the fact they can't tune an engine.......
Karl

^^^ WHS

1600TP does work well when properly setup with an SVDA, it will work well with a 009. If you start playing around with other parts of the engine, head work, cam, twin carbs etc then there is nothing wrong with running a 009, or better still a 010, but they really ought to be OG Bosch ones, not the cheap ones readily available now. It would seem there is not much consistancy in manufacturing tolerances these days, you may get a good new 009, you may not. you pays your money, you takes your chances.

To give you some ideas, my daughters beetle is a 1300TP with an SVDA and it took me a long time to tune it properly, but it runs nice and smooth, where it did have a 009 that I junked in favour of the SVDA, that also ran nice and smooth when it was on!

My bus has a nice little 1641 with a few nice bits inside and twin 36DRLA's and is so easy to tune and is smooth and responsive with a 009.

Karl rightly said that the problems with a 009 are not always down to it being a bad dissy, but may also be down to bad tuning and/or other engine problems.

If I had a standard 1600 with IDF's I would keep the 009 and spend my time and money on other things like the electronic points replacements, decent exhaust, and not worry about the SVDA.

 

[Trikky2]

Distributors on car engines all work the same way, theres nothing special about air cooled ones or the brand being Bosche or Lucas etc.

The purpose of the vac can on a dissy is two fold :-

It provides an initial bit of advance when pulling away from rest at low rpm, making the engine smoother and less likely to stall or hesitate.

It provides additional advance - over and above the max of 28 to 30, at light throttle loads - like when your driving on a flat road at between 30 and 50.

It does this because it makes the engine run more economically. - it saves petrol.

This level of advance (34/36 up to 38 ish) is for light throttle only, since flooring it with this much advance would cause pinking.

These are the reasons svda distributors were used, be it on a Beetle, Morris Minor, Ford Cortina or Rolls Royce.

Todays cars do the same thing but use a computer and a knock sensor to monitor and control advance instead of mechanical weights and a vac can.

Your VW aircooled wont die from using an 009 unit, designed and intended for use on industrial engines powering things like water pumps and generators - but nor will it perform as well as it could.

If the considerably cheaper 009 units had performed satisfactorily on road cars the savings would have been made since production costs were very closely monitored down to every last centimeter of wiring loom.

The economy of air cooled engines was never as good as that of water cooled ones. At the time the economy was considered very important.

 

[K@rlos]

Karl,
Out of interest, what is your budget for the MSD system ?

Jon


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I wan the full set up so £700ish That's dizzy, leads, coil and control box.

 

[Lefty Westy]

I had a 1600 with twin 36 IDF's and an OG Bosch 009, NEVER had an issue with it. I think a lot of people who slag off the 009 are simply covering up the fact they can't tune an engine...

Karl

^^^
Wot he said...

But also quite correct about Vac Advance being the best approach at part load providing the vac can is matched to the manifold vacuum. SVDA is tailored to stock 1600 manifold vacuum. I doubt a set of 36IDF's would give the same vac signal, which is why peeps use the 009.

I have a cheapo 009 on my 2007 with 40DRLA's. Works a treat, no flat spots.

 

[jonboylaw]

Karl,
Out of interest, what is your budget for the MSD system ?

Jon


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I wan the full set up so £700ish That's dizzy, leads, coil and control box.

Ouch!
I think my Megajolt, all in, was about half that. What does it bring apart from easy bolt on ?

Jon


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[K@rlos]

The advance curve is fully adjustable and it's got a built in rev limiter.

 

[jonboylaw]

Same as the MJ then, fully programmable curve, shift light output, soft rev limit plus aux outputs for switching ancillaries and dual map capability. Plus with the EDIS, there is a "get home mode" if the MJ fails. What size is the map matrix ? 10x10 or bigger? The MJ is 10x10 and sometimes I wish it was a little bigger.



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[Trikky2]

I had a 1600 with twin 36 IDF's and an OG Bosch 009, NEVER had an issue with it. I think a lot of people who slag off the 009 are simply covering up the fact they can't tune an engine...

Karl

^^^
Wot he said...

But also quite correct about Vac Advance being the best approach at part load providing the vac can is matched to the manifold vacuum. SVDA is tailored to stock 1600 manifold vacuum. I doubt a set of 36IDF's would give the same vac signal, which is why peeps use the 009.

I have a cheapo 009 on my 2007 with 40DRLA's. Works a treat, no flat spots.

Sorry but you are wrong about the manifold vacuum.

The vac can is not operated by manifold vacuum - otherwise it would give max advance only with the throttle closed, which would be wholly useless and bad news for the engine.

The vac can is operated by a vac signal from an accurately placed drilling in the carb body by the throttle butterfly.

There is therefore only a vac signal with the throttle slightly open. With wider throttle openings and when the throttle is shut there is no vac signal. With the throttle shut the drilling is not exposed to any vacuum.

This vac signal is generated by the mixture flowing through the small gap between the throttle butterfly and the throat of the caburettor and should never be confused with manifold depression, used to operate things like brake servos.