1776 engine build quieries.

[Pete B]

Thanks everyone for your input. Having read through all the comments several times I think I may have a basic plan. Using as much of the s/h engine as possible, rebuild with 90.5 bores, h/d pump, cooler/filter and probably an Engle 110 cam. Balancing will come down to time, hassle factor and obviously money. As Alex so rightly says, an engine is a glorified air pump, so I plan to spend some time getting the c/r right and matching ports etc. Expect to use 34icts' but 36 Delortos would be nice if funds allow. :roll:
I fully appreciate that the more time, effort and money go into an engine the more impressive and long lasting the result. Sadly all of those criteria are in short supply what with the nature of my work and my house now needing a fair bit of tlc.
Need to change the crank seal on the trusty s/p currently fitted and keep fingers crossed that the little darlin' keeps chugging away long enough to get the 'new' one ready.
Thank you all again,
Pete.

 

[dubdubz]

I'm sure you have it covered but if you need a hand to change the seal, drop me a pm. A couple of hours help may mean it's in and out in a day. Plus I have a torqmeister tool so getting the flywheel nut off is easy, esp for when and if the shims need adjusting.....and the nut has to come off again!

I have other engine building stuff as your local is more than welcome to visit yours, adj pushrod to set valve geometry, valve spring compressor, if you're porting the heads yourself and cleaning the tracts in general. I'd recommend a 3angle valve job as a minimum if you can get it done as this keeps the gases in where they should be and makes for a better air pump.

also if you do go HD pump ask the builder to do the berg pump mod as it'll work as it should then, also I'd run a berg pressure relief plate as this has helped me have zero pressure spillages on the oil lines or on the filter.

I do agree that you could spend a fortune on a 1776 if you wanted, my point is that you could as easily build a reliable unit, without buying a pump, cam, crank, rockers. A balanced and correctly set CR and subsequent correctly jetted unit [ a lot are running too hot as the afr is in the hot 14-15:1 ] will work just as well imo.

When I get employed again I may well build a 'less is more' 1776 to prove myself right [ or wrong :lol: ]

good luck with it Pete.....

 

[67panel]

might have a pair of cylinder heads for sale ,will ask Holly if your interested,must remember to duck :shock:

 

[froggy]

OK i'm reviving this thread.

I've got the go ahead to build something for the van (over a long time though and will probably be ready for NEXT season).
What did people go for in the end?
I'm thinking 1776 with 34 ICT's (if funds will just allow these), standard crank built around a dual oil relief AS41 case.
How much would maching of heads / case cost? and where?
Cost of 90.5mm B&P (also where from?)
Cost of maching case for full flow and cost of full flow system (What filter / manifold?)
Already got a free flowing stainless exhaust (at last a cost saving)

Will run from the standard gearbox but will fit the biggest size tyres i can to help lower the revs.
Anything else that needs considering?

 

[alex4057]

Good to Chat at the weekend Pete :mrgreen:

Froggy, I'd try your closet and best VW engine builders,

Ian @ http://www.wolfsburgperformance.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mark @ Autotechniks 01372 878464

and Lee Maynard, (don't have his contact details but Ian at Wolfsburg will let you have them)

All Local to you and VERY knowledgeable!

 

[Pete B]

So, I now am in posession of a 90.5 barrel/piston set along with a pair of heads machined to suit! Now have to clear some space in the garage and strip the other engine to assess the suitability of the case, crank, rods etc.
Pretty damn sure now it will be a nearly stock rebuild, just a little bit bigger with an external oil filter and cooler. I will spend some time matching ports and checking C.R.
Carbs, well, depends on funds and what comes along really, but everyone with 36DRLAs seem to love them so may have to push the boat out and go for it!
Time to get busy

Good to Chat at the weekend Pete :mrgreen:

Likewise fella, always a pleasure 8)

 

[froggy]

Froggy, I'd try your closet and best VW engine builders,

Ian @ http://www.wolfsburgperformance.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have swapped a few emails with Ian and will contact him again when i've stripped the engine down to a bare case, definately going to get him to drill the case for a filter but unsure about machining case and heads as still undecided what way to go :?

On another note, could people state what companies there using for parts (or post links) as the prices seem to vary dramatically between different companies and i'm struggling to price everything up (Cant find a price for an Engle 110 cam kit only the cam itself, also 90.5 B&P £280 :shock: )

 

[yakboy]

Froggy, you could use a scat C25 kit instead of the engle. I have just had my 1600 rebuilt to a 1776 with full flow, 69mm counterweighted crankshaft, C25 kit, minimal cylinderhead work and I run 34ict's (which I will have rejetted and tweaked on the rolling road)..I am running a stock cooler as Darren at Aircooled Performance said it is more than adequate for a tourquey low revving engine.

 

[Pete B]

Is it the C25 or the C35 which is pretty much the same profile as an Engle 110? Either way I may well use a standard VW cam, it produces the right sort of power at the right times for me.
I am going to use an external filter and cooler for easier/better filtration AND increased oil capacity which has to help with cooling. Increasing the bored/stroked capacity has to increase stress on all the moving components along with higher temperatures which should be kept in touch by increasing the oil capacity. Fingers crossed.

 

[67panel]

deep sump ,just a small one helps ,read this months volks world shows you how to work out compression ratios,its worth a mild cam to make your extra ccs work or stock cam and ratio rockers,that could be cheaper you can get rockers on there own ,but i would use a bolt up shaft.stock oil pump as well but match and champher oil ports (how to hot rod vw engines is good but a bit dated)thers lots of little things to do ,cost nowt or next to and make a differance.good exhaust as well,no good shoveing it in if it wont come out :shock: :lol: and 36 dells or idfs,set up right make it nicer to drive and pos better mpg.

 

[froggy]

Anyone have any thoughts on these? (item 2)
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=195
Seems an easier option than external filter and oil pipes.

 

[cunning plan]

Anyone have any thoughts on these? (item 2)
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=195
Seems an easier option than external filter and oil pipes.

Wow, never seen one of those before :shock: 8)

Is it Marcher on here who keeps blowing oil-lines - could be a good solution?

 

[froggy]

Was reading something on the samba and got directed to this web site, not sure of the space issue but certainly seems an easier option (and less chance of leaks)

 

[froggy]

Have been quoted £100 + VAT MINIMUM for maching case and aprrox the same for the heads to fit 90.5mm B&P's.
£35 + VAT for the drilling of the case for full flow filter system (not including filter and oil lines) so about £300 depending on anything else found during the machining / drilling of the case and heads.
Add to this the cost of the B&P's (close to £300), the cam kit (C35 £160), the filter / oil cooler / lines (£60 (Guessing here)), a decent set of carbs (£300), might as well add a new oil pump (£50) and say a £100 for consumables (gasket kit, push rod tubes etc) and i think its to much for me at the moment, theres other bits i need for the van that MUST come before this

Might be a case of run my single port and build up a replacement 1600 twin port with what i have in the garage (with maybe 1 or 2 littler tweaks )

 

[r73]

Have been quoted £100 + VAT MINIMUM for maching case and aprrox the same for the heads to fit 90.5mm B&P's.
£35 + VAT for the drilling of the case for full flow filter system (not including filter and oil lines) so about £300 depending on anything else found during the machining / drilling of the case and heads.
Add to this the cost of the B&P's (close to £300), the cam kit (C35 £160), the filter / oil cooler / lines (£60 (Guessing here)), a decent set of carbs (£300), might as well add a new oil pump (£50) and say a £100 for consumables (gasket kit, push rod tubes etc) and i think its to much for me at the moment, theres other bits i need for the van that MUST come before this

Might be a case of run my single port and build up a replacement 1600 twin port with what i have in the garage (with maybe 1 or 2 littler tweaks )

I've been through the same thought process - and agree you - whilst I'd love a 1776, the money would be put to better use on getting out there and clocking up some miles. I'm going to rebuild my beetle lump - 1300TP (dual relief case with the right holes to for the moustache bar) - its a one owner 70k lump with very minimal endplay so fingers crossed I'll get away with new forged pistons and barrells (Mahle - i think) and a little port and polish on the 1600 TP heads currently on the (single relief) bus engine. coupled with my awesome 36 dells, and cheapo bugpack quietpack (right sort of noise) if i have some extra cash anytime i might add some ratio rockers? just gotta decide on 1600 or 1641? theres about £40 in it, everyone I know with 1641's swears by them?
I've got an old 1500SP to do a practise refurb on for the beetle - i'll do this first and see what happens!!
Good luck Si - see you out there 8)

 

[Slammed]

Anyone have any thoughts on these? (item 2)
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=195
Seems an easier option than external filter and oil pipes.

Wow, never seen one of those before :shock: 8)

Is it Marcher on here who keeps blowing oil-lines - could be a good solution?

That'd never fit with the engine support bar. :?

Anyone that says that a 1600 is fine for a bus, you'd change your mind once you have a few extra ccs behind you. :lol:

 

[froggy]

Anyone that says that a 1600 is fine for a bus, you'd change your mind once you have a few extra ccs behind you. :lol:

I'm sure thats the case but and maybe one day it will happen but not at the moment.

 

[r73]

Anyone that says that a 1600 is fine for a bus, you'd change your mind once you have a few extra ccs behind you. :lol:[/quote]

True - but main objective for me is to avoid having to use a few extra cc's in front of the bus - (towing us when we break down) :lol: Economics will dictate that 1641 may be our only option :? for now!

 

[r73]

Anyone that says that a 1600 is fine for a bus, you'd change your mind once you have a few extra ccs behind you. :lol:[/quote]

True - but main objective for me is to avoid having to use a few extra cc's in front of the bus - (towing us when we break down) :lol: Economics will dictate that 1641 may be our only option :? for now!

 

[Slammed]

Depends who builds it I spose. :lol: