Engine bay fire

[Dickie524]

Hi all, following type2tattoo's post elsewhere with the sad news of his engine fire and subsequent battle with insurance I am looking at this topic with renewed interest. Whilst I realise it is only a one-off expense I was somewhat staggered at how expensive the air cooled engine works extinguishers are. Are these still perceived as the best way to go? Obviously I would be nheartbroken to lose the van now after so much hard work and now we are just starting to use it in anger, and these do really seem steep, but is there really anything reliable on the market for a little less than that? I have seen fire balls but not keen and they don't look especially in keeping .

I suspect the air cooled works ones are probably the way to go, but I can't deny I'm a bit taken aback at how much they are.

Obviously all usual arguments of safety first etc etc still apply.

 

[cunning plan]

Watching thread.. opcorn:

Thanks. It's an aircooled works gas system. Comes highly recommended

Interesting! Aircooled Works are quite close to me and I did not know they were there! :lol:

Whilst I realise it is only a one-off expense I was somewhat staggered at how expensive the air cooled engine works extinguishers are. Are these still perceived as the best way to go?

I think you answered your own question here:

Obviously I would be nheartbroken to lose the van now after so much hard work and now we are just starting to use it in anger

Is all of your hard work and investment to this point, worth another £210 to help protect it?

Yah, I think so.

 

[Moseley]

My personal opinion after speaking to an engineer within the fire business... powder extinguishers are the most likely to extinguish an engine bay fire. The downside, as mentioned, is that they create an almighty mess; but surely this is better than watching your van burn to the ground and gives you as long as possible to remove yourself and others from the van.

I'm not convinced by gas extinguishers... at the end of the day, our vans are air cooled and rely on that air flow across the block to cool them. I'm not confident that emptying an inert gas into the engine bay would deplete the oxygen for long enough for a fire to extinguish, especially if it is fuel-fed.


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[CornishSilver]

My personal opinion after speaking to an engineer within the fire business... powder extinguishers are the most likely to extinguish an engine bay fire. The downside, as mentioned, is that they create an almighty mess; but surely this is better than watching your van burn to the ground and gives you as long as possible to remove yourself and others from the van.

I'm not convinced by gas extinguishers... at the end of the day, our vans are air cooled and rely on that air flow across the block to cool them. I'm not confident that emptying an inert gas into the engine bay would deplete the oxygen for long enough for a fire to extinguish, especially if it is fuel-fed.


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I don't have either yet but I am sort of agreeing with your thoughts on it tbh. If your traveling at any speed then the gases will surely just whooooosh out with the air in a very short space of time. Although the powder is going to cause the van to be off the road it will be at the cost of the insurance company to replace any parts affected by the corrosive powder or labour time cleaning and setting up etc. Id love to hear a few stories of the gas type working somewhere, especially at speed.

 

[Dickie524]

True, though surely under normal circumstances the net flow is air into the engine bay (and out of the exhaust?)

 

[landiedave]

I've got a blazecut system in my bus, it a 2m long hose pipe filled with liquid, when a fire melts the outside it realises the liquid that turns to gas. All you need to do is cable tie it in place and unless you look right above the engine you can't see it. There's a very good video on YouTube of a split with it, hopefully I'll never need it but with 2 kids I wanted to be safe.
Dave

 

[cunning plan]

My personal opinion after speaking to an engineer within the fire business... powder extinguishers are the most likely to extinguish an engine bay fire. The downside, as mentioned, is that they create an almighty mess; but surely this is better than watching your van burn to the ground and gives you as long as possible to remove yourself and others from the van.

I'm not convinced by gas extinguishers... at the end of the day, our vans are air cooled and rely on that air flow across the block to cool them. I'm not confident that emptying an inert gas into the engine bay would deplete the oxygen for long enough for a fire to extinguish, especially if it is fuel-fed.

I don't have either yet but I am sort of agreeing with your thoughts on it tbh. If your traveling at any speed then the gases will surely just whooooosh out with the air in a very short space of time. Although the powder is going to cause the van to be off the road it will be at the cost of the insurance company to replace any parts affected by the corrosive powder or labour time cleaning and setting up etc. Id love to hear a few stories of the gas type working somewhere, especially at speed.

True, though surely under normal circumstances the net flow is air into the engine bay (and out of the exhaust?)

After a brief call to Peter at Aircooled Works, I can understand that a lot of development has gone into their system and I can recommend calling Peter if you have any questions.

Peter gave me a lot of information, almost too much for me to remember, but the key points I picked up on:

• (From memory so do not quote me) Only 6% dilution of air and gas mixture needs to be achieved to put out a fire - so even with fresh air being pushed down the vents into the engine bay, 6% coverage / mix would not take long.
• The gas ejects from the canister at the speed of an airbag and freezes any fuel vapour.
• The US Military and Airforce use a similar system.

^ Do not quote me on any of that, please contact Aircooled Works first if you have any questions, these points are just what I can roughly remember to give you an idea of how and why it works.

 

[CornishSilver]

I've got a blazecut system in my bus, it a 2m long hose pipe filled with liquid, when a fire melts the outside it realises the liquid that turns to gas. All you need to do is cable tie it in place and unless you look right above the engine you can't see it. There's a very good video on YouTube of a split with it, hopefully I'll never need it but with 2 kids I wanted to be safe.
Dave

Just had a look and it seems a great option, cheaper too

 

[kempy]

I did my research on this topic and after speaking with Peter @ Aircooled Works like others choose his system along with fit and forget pipes & full tank cut off solenoid.

I understand that there are cheaper alternatives (and maybe better) available but I felt this solution was best for me. Hopefully I'll never need to find out how good it is though.

 

[cunning plan]

I did my research on this topic and after speaking with Peter @ Aircooled Works like others choose his system along with fit and forget pipes & full tank cut off solenoid.

I understand that there are cheaper alternatives (and maybe better) available but I felt this solution was best for me. Hopefully I'll never need to find out how good it is though.

I also like the idea of the dash indicator light showing the system's status and if it does go off, a refill is only around £25.

 

[CornishSilver]

I think I'm going to go with the Blazecut as I have twin carbs. I feel that potentially an extinguisher type would direct the main force of the powder/gas at the wrong place, unless of course you have a single carb. Looks like better coverage to me and as its activated from melting the tube the hottest part (fire source) would be targeted even if its from a battery. I'm no expert mind, just thinking aloud. 5 year shelf life so a ongoing cost

 

[cunning plan]

Just looked at a few videos on YouTube and saw this:

[youtube]miSdoaxswHA[/youtube]

Look how difficult it is to put out, and that is the fire brigade!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[CornishSilver]

Seen that before CP, if my memory is correct it was a battery fire

 

[cunning plan]

Seen that before CP, if my memory is correct it was a battery fire

Pretty butt-clenching!

I think I'm going to go with the Blazecut as I have twin carbs. I feel that potentially an extinguisher type would direct the main force of the powder/gas at the wrong place, unless of course you have a single carb. Looks like better coverage to me and as its activated from melting the tube the hottest part (fire source) would be targeted even if its from a battery. I'm no expert mind, just thinking aloud. 5 year shelf life so a ongoing cost

I have had a detailed email from Aircooled Works and reading thought it I did notice this:

I would note that the blazecut system needs to be on fire to activate and the activation time is significant during which time damage will be occurring, our system activates on air temperature of 80 degrees and minimal damage will have occurred. Our system is also refillable and has a 10 year life not 5 years so is more cost effective over the period of use. We are talking a totally different quality of construction and robustness over a piece of tubing and cable ties

Also, it can be used with twin carbs:



Here is a link I just found while researching them on LateBay:

http://thelatebay.com/index.php?threads/vw-aircooled-works-fireboy-fire-suppression-system-group-buy.23248/

 

[TheHewsonFamily]

The way that Peter Shaw explained it to me when I had his system fitted was that the problem with the blaze cut (or any type of 'tube'' extinguisher) is that the initial point of compromise of the tube will be the only point that the gas flows from once the pressure is released. If there is only one combustion point in the engine bay this may be fine, but the danger is that you have multiple areas where there is fuel leakage around the engine bay that the gas is not being directed towards.

Also worth noting that his system is fitted to race car engine bays with even higher air flow than our little engine bays.

 

[cunning plan]

Also worth noting that his system is fitted to race car engine bays with even higher air flow than our little engine bays.

Yes, the Fireboy / Aircooled Works system is a regulation fitment in NASCAR I believe.

I am going to try and visit Aircooled Works this week at some point to take a look at the system properly, plus to say hi to Peter and look at his workshop. :shadey:

P.S. Amazing engine bay right there! arty0021: