Lard's engine rebuild (* was "tight/on it's way out valve")

[aogrady]

Hi,

Progressing alone well. I am interested to see how you get on with the ICT's, i have a set waiting to go on mine too, i need the heat riser blanks, and need to look at a fuel pump, so would love more info on this as you go along!

Watching with interest!

Alistair

 

[bertiethebus]

Lard , noticed u mentioned gritty **** in ur sump?
Pop your fuel pump out and you'll find the bottom of the tube is probs missing and broke up in your sump, bakelite plasticcy type stuff :evil:
As long as its not been for a trip through your bearings, happy days :shock:

 

[67panel]

right some advise before you **** things up :shock: if your fitting new p&bs use the new gudgin pins (or wrist pins if your american!!)and circlips old clips can let go and will take out your new p&bs.check the bushes (little end bearings )in the con rods for wear ,will need case stripping to get them of crank though.I run twin itc's on my stock bottom end single port B code engine with ported twin port heads ,single quiet pack and still use stock fuel pump with no probs.tow the drag race beetle and large 4 wheel trailer from ours to longmarston (shakespeare county raceway)on a 1/4 tank of fuel,64 miles.you can feel the power curve lacking below 2k rpm starts to pull from 2 to 2500 and then realy pulls from 3000 to5500 (not tried over this yet :msn4: )check your compression ratio as well as some pattern heads have large chambers.low comp means low power! wouldant do any harm to up it to 8 :1 and dont use super market fuel .the stuff on top of your pistons is burnt carbon and is normal in any engine.

 

[lard]

Cheers for the advise - just what I need (not to **** things up! )

Got most of the bits through today - but the heads and pistons are on back order - checked and they come with new gudgeons & clips so that's sorted - just googling about for jet sizes now, I'm not sure what size the webers come with from machine7 but assume it will be out?

 

[Geeze]

Blimey, so you've gone for the full 'while it's apart' options then! 8)

Advice? As above, use the new gudgeon pins and circlips. The clips are a pain (learn to duck :lol: ) but recycling the old ones can lead to 5cc extra capacity and a nicely scored barrel. Again, second the advice to check the little ends on the conrods. If they're worn, it's usually a good sign that the big ends and mains probably are too. When reassembling, pay attention to the marks on the pistons and make sure you fit them the right way up, the pins are offset.

The advice to check the cc on the heads is good (forgot about that ) and get a pot of paste to lap things in before reassembly (eg. barrels / heads), it's not hard, it's just time and tlc (the sort of thing that 'cheap' rebuilt engines skip out on). Similarly, it's not a performance motor but if you have access to some digital scales then it's worth checking the weights of the pistons and matching them. It only costs time and patience and makes for a nicer, smoother engine.

Stock fuel pump should be fine for ICTs, if you're going electric then fit the plain blanking plate, not the one with the oil take off (or plug the takeoff if that's what you've got). I'd also suggest considering rebuilding with bolt up rocker shafts if you're assembling up heads and fitting twin carbs as the stock spring and clip rocker arrangement isn't really a fan of over-revving and that's easy to do with a low geared bus (especially in first) and twin carbs.

 

[lard]

The barrels turned up today so could start the build up - have to say that the OG heads and barrels are much better quality.....is it worth keeping these and further down the line getting these refurb'd if they are still viable - no cracks inside the heads and barrels/pistons are fine (and 87mm so think I already had a 1641 :shock: unless my tape measure is out!)

New heads fitted - relatively painless (touch wood) following bentley (thanks for the tips on making sure the pistons are the right way round )- setting valve gaps and then it's onto refitting the tin then heat exchangers, then bug pack,then pump and finally carbs 8)

 

[lard]

Hi,

Progressing alone well. I am interested to see how you get on with the ICT's, i have a set waiting to go on mine too, i need the heat riser blanks, and need to look at a fuel pump, so would love more info on this as you go along!

Watching with interest!

Alistair

Hi,

The heat riser blanks where in with the fitting kit for the carbs which is great - though mine weren't drilled but one did seem to let pressure in so fitted them to both,

I've also put the fuel pump in - I went with a new host from the tank with a filter inline behind the bulkhead (to change from 5.6mm > 8mm (i think it's 8mm!)) - I've decided to put the pump in the engine bay for now but mounted onto the side, will take some pics of this,

Got one of the fuel filter:

Now (fingers crossed!) finished the build up - fitting the carbs took a lot longer than thought as I had to decipher the instructions to build the empi link kit but got there in the end - the exhaust also took a while to fit but that's down to having to persuade the lower clamps onto the heat exchanger/manifold join :|

Happy though - also removed mech fuel pump, blanked off and relocated the dizzy onto the bracket supplied with the weber kit - have to say that this had most of the bits included that I wouldn't have known I needed :mrgreen:

So far:

Possible engine in this weekend - then just need to finish wiring the pump and running the fuel hoses and it's on to working out how to setup the carbs!

 

[Rich]

I know you don't have dual barrel carbs, but this guide has some useful general tips. Looking forward to it all firing up nicely

 

[ozziedog]

Hey,, that`s looking good Larry !! 8)

Ozziedog,,,,,,,, :mrgreen:

 

[lard]

Have finished fitting the engine back in the van - had to jack up the gearbox first and put stuff under it to then move the engine in (valuable lesson learnt, will definitely remember to support it next time ) but managed to get it in after about 20 minutes so not too painful!

Engine in and fitted - I put the carbs in to be able to crank the engine over - everything seems to be moving, oil pressure light went out during crank so assume oil pressure is good!

Have now taken the carbs back out again - I finished all the fuel pump plumbing and ran the hoses round the back of the fan shroud to keep it all tidy and also sorted out the wiring and wrapped it up neatly:

I did connect the dizzy up and attempt to get it started but no joy - wouldn't even catch - reading into this the carbs have nowhere near the right jets installed so dropped eurocarb a mail and they recommended 140 mains and 55 idles for my setup, very pleased with the help for what ended up being £11 of parts, they could have told me to go swivel as I got them from someone else so will definitely consider them if I ever need parts or more carbs!

Hopefully they will allow me to start the engine up - wasn't catching at all and went through everything multiple times so have to assume that whatever jets are in there are completely out of whack - will know more when I crack them open to install the new jets!

 

[lard]

o.k. - busy playing so bit late on the update

So I got the new jets from eurocarb - the first set were wrong (right size on the bag, wrong size jets inside), eurocarb sent the correct ones out without question, feeling slightly guilty I didn't buy the carbs from them now - will certainly do so for any future sets as the customer service has been first class

The not catching issue.......so I assumed the black lead from the loom went to the negative of the coil :roll: - it doesn't! it's the positive and I fried my pertonix's :evil: - had a spare luckily so fitted it, fired up and it's alive 8)

In the end I whipped up to T2D and they tig welded a barbed fitting into my manifold for me so fitted that yesterday and I now have brakes!

Went for a 50 mile trip this afternoon and it's running really well - it is making a ticking noise and I *think* I bent the pushrods on one side when they got trapped as I was cranking up the rocker assembly (doh!) so will remove and check them for straightness and hopefully that will solve it

Happy days!

Now have spare carb, inlet manifold and 2 sets of manifolds spare .....

 

[ZedBed]

Without wanting to sound like the voice of doom, I wouldn't dream of doing what you've just done without replacing, AT A MINIMUM, the big end bearing shells. About £10 a set and easily do-able without splitting the case. All that extra power from your new bits and carbs will knock the bottom out and by the time you stop the crank will be ruined. I would point blank refuse to do a top-end for a customer without replacing these shells. Clearly it's best to split the case and do the lot, but I know what you guys are like. :lol:

Ticking - did you check the deck height? Does the ticking get louder as it warms up? If no to first question and yes to second, the piston is hitting the head. If it is you need some shims under the barrels to correct the deck height and while you're at it, do the shells.

...I'll get me coat...

 

[lard]

Without wanting to sound like the voice of doom, I wouldn't dream of doing what you've just done without replacing, AT A MINIMUM, the big end bearing shells. About £10 a set and easily do-able without splitting the case. All that extra power from your new bits and carbs will knock the bottom out and by the time you stop the crank will be ruined. I would point blank refuse to do a top-end for a customer without replacing these shells. Clearly it's best to split the case and do the lot, but I know what you guys are like. :lol:

Ticking - did you check the deck height? Does the ticking get louder as it warms up? If no to first question and yes to second, the piston is hitting the head. If it is you need some shims under the barrels to correct the deck height and while you're at it, do the shells.

...I'll get me coat...

No worries on the doom! It's a learning curve for me - as it is the engine itself is a mexi replacement so certainly hasn't been rattling around in the bus for the last 40 years - the bus already had the air filter stand cut out and seems to have been a replacement for whatever the PO was running (there's also flame marks in the engine bay so assume it didn't end well for the previous engine!)

The ticking doesn't get louder when it warms up - if anything it gets quieter but is still there - it might just be me being paranoid about the noise but I do remember cranking the rocker assembly and catching the push rods so want to double-check them

As it happens - I checked your website and your down the road from me so will be in touch about my wheel arch and some filler coming through - if my first foray into engine work goes pear shaped you'll also be getting a humble phone call

At some point I'd like to get a professionally built engine in the bus - the work so far has been done to keep it going over the summer, hopefully everything I've purchased so far can be transferred over to a replacement engine in time!

 

[ZedBed]

I'm glad the ticking doesn't get louder.
Rockers they can wear with at edge at the end of their rocking arc. Then if you do some head barrel etc work and reset the tappets they can sometimes click on the worn step on the side of the rocker. You can take the rocker assy apart and swap the rockers around to prevent this - you'll see what I mean if you have one in your hand. Could be your problem? If so it's just a tick and won't hurt. What you did to the pushrods missing the cup is rather common and doesn't usually result in any damage so fingers crossed.

Now you've had a bash you should diy rebuild - you'll do a good job. The first one I ever did was sweet and smooth - I was impressed even if nobody else was looking. :lol:

 

[lard]

I'm glad the ticking doesn't get louder.
Rockers they can wear with at edge at the end of their rocking arc. Then if you do some head barrel etc work and reset the tappets they can sometimes click on the worn step on the side of the rocker. You can take the rocker assy apart and swap the rockers around to prevent this - you'll see what I mean if you have one in your hand. Could be your problem? If so it's just a tick and won't hurt. What you did to the pushrods missing the cup is rather common and doesn't usually result in any damage so fingers crossed.

Now you've had a bash you should diy rebuild - you'll do a good job. The first one I ever did was sweet and smooth - I was impressed even if nobody else was looking. :lol:

cheers! I'm still recovering from this first attempt at engine work, though I've learnt loads and next time will definitely build an engine separately from the bus so I don't feel pressured to get it back in again

Sorted the ticking ..... whipped off the rocker cover for 1 & 2 and the adjusting nut on intake 1 had worked completely off :shock: - so the rocker was just flapping around hence the ticking re-did the gaps on all and made sure they were nice and tight then fired it up - running 100 times smoother now :mrgreen:

Just goes to show how solid these engines are as I'd done around 60 miles in it the other day effectively on 3 cylinders!

 

[ZedBed]

Excellent. :lol:
I drove my 1700 about 100 miles with 0 compression on one cylinder. A bit slow but it would still get up to 50mph. But I chucked the engine - in those days you could get a second hand engine cheaper than a new head and it was less work!