I have a dilemma at the moment as I have had both magazine since issue 1. However, I am bored with them. What particularly irks me are the just "just bought it, had it restored by all the names, showed it, now it's up for sale" crew. I am going to have to cancel one of them I guess as the buses seem to be in each other mag too. I hope all the T5 shite moves on though, as a red builders van with big alloys and a big telly don't make it a classic even if it does come with surfboards as a prop.
More space in mags for proper buses?
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tsunamivw
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Agree totally, they're not the same
David Eccles
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One of the key reasons behind the launch of 4/5+ as sister title to Camper and Commercial (my idea btw) was because I was not able (or willing) to devote more space to modern buses but was being inundated with lots of potential features and requests for more of them. To do so would have moved away from what CnC is all about. Since CnC hit the streets back in 2000 one of the things I have always tried to do was to cater for the whole bus community..and yes I know lots of you simply turn over those pages with modern stuff but there is a strong element of readership that likes to see them alongside vintage stuff..
its interesting to see that C&B started up having seen the success of CnC and that now a new 4/5 mag is being done by them - again after we launched our title.
But I guess that reflects the huge and growing ownership of those vehicles
As far as Camper and Commercial goes my basic balance tries to be 1/3 pre 67, 1/3 68-79, and 1/3 post 1980. So I guess that means 1/3 of he mag is of less (or no) interest to many of you on here but at end of day a mag is a commercial venture and has to try to hit a wide audience. But if we find the readership of modern stuff is moving over to 4/5+ I will have to look carefully at what is happening.
My heart and passion (as those of you know me will know) always has been and always will be T1 and T2 vintage buses - and yes though I no longer have a Splitty and drive a modern T5 thats more to do with my age and changed lifestyle needs rather than thinking modern buses are better.
I also always try to avoid "its been done up and is for sale syndrome"...I can't be doing with running a glorified for sale ad...I want to celebrate what people drive and live with...
hope this answers some of the q's here..
and if you have something you think would make a good mag feature then feel free to get in touch via [email protected]
And going monthly means more buses can be featured!!!!
Cheers
David
its interesting to see that C&B started up having seen the success of CnC and that now a new 4/5 mag is being done by them - again after we launched our title.
But I guess that reflects the huge and growing ownership of those vehicles
As far as Camper and Commercial goes my basic balance tries to be 1/3 pre 67, 1/3 68-79, and 1/3 post 1980. So I guess that means 1/3 of he mag is of less (or no) interest to many of you on here but at end of day a mag is a commercial venture and has to try to hit a wide audience. But if we find the readership of modern stuff is moving over to 4/5+ I will have to look carefully at what is happening.
My heart and passion (as those of you know me will know) always has been and always will be T1 and T2 vintage buses - and yes though I no longer have a Splitty and drive a modern T5 thats more to do with my age and changed lifestyle needs rather than thinking modern buses are better.
I also always try to avoid "its been done up and is for sale syndrome"...I can't be doing with running a glorified for sale ad...I want to celebrate what people drive and live with...
hope this answers some of the q's here..
and if you have something you think would make a good mag feature then feel free to get in touch via [email protected]
And going monthly means more buses can be featured!!!!
Cheers
David
john the horse
Well-known member
David Eccles said:One of the key reasons behind the launch of 4/5+ as sister title to Camper and Commercial (my idea btw) was because I was not able (or willing) to devote more space to modern buses but was being inundated with lots of potential features and requests for more of them. To do so would have moved away from what CnC is all about. Since CnC hit the streets back in 2000 one of the things I have always tried to do was to cater for the whole bus community..and yes I know lots of you simply turn over those pages with modern stuff but there is a strong element of readership that likes to see them alongside vintage stuff..
its interesting to see that C&B started up having seen the success of CnC and that now a new 4/5 mag is being done by them - again after we launched our title.
But I guess that reflects the huge and growing ownership of those vehicles
As far as Camper and Commercial goes my basic balance tries to be 1/3 pre 67, 1/3 68-79, and 1/3 post 1980. So I guess that means 1/3 of he mag is of less (or no) interest to many of you on here but at end of day a mag is a commercial venture and has to try to hit a wide audience. But if we find the readership of modern stuff is moving over to 4/5+ I will have to look carefully at what is happening.
My heart and passion (as those of you know me will know) always has been and always will be T1 and T2 vintage buses - and yes though I no longer have a Splitty and drive a modern T5 thats more to do with my age and changed lifestyle needs rather than thinking modern buses are better.
I also always try to avoid "its been done up and is for sale syndrome"...I can't be doing with running a glorified for sale ad...I want to celebrate what people drive and live with...
hope this answers some of the q's here..
and if you have something you think would make a good mag feature then feel free to get in touch via [email protected]
And going monthly means more buses can be featured!!!!
Cheers
David
well you cant please all the peeps all the time, i am guessing that you dont want to do a full centre page spread on my vito then, hmm such a shame, im sure the other one makes up for it he is a mag whore.
jth
Gütterßnipe
Well-known member
1. - A Doner Kebab - Spenceboosdad
2
3
4
5
KevH
Well-known member
David Eccles said:
It is good to know that you care enough to respond, David. The consensus on here is that the T4 and T5 may well one day (God forbid) be regarded as classic camper material, but they ain't that yet, and the current mix of classic buses and car park fodder seems to meet nobody's preferences. That begs the question of why include T4/5s in C&C when you have a dedicated mag now. Will the T4/5 readership buy both...I doubt it.
Anyway, I'll take up your offer of suggesting a feature, and it won't be 'guess what John The Horse holds his wipers on with', although that might not be bad idea actually. Is it a hot dog by any chance, John? :lol:
john the horse
Well-known member
both in the right ball park ie food but incorrect.easy said:
if i get five answers ill give you the tale of the battery
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1. - A Doner Kebab - Spenceboosdad
2. - Chewing Gum - Easy
3. - Spaghetti - gvee
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2. - Chewing Gum - Easy
3. - Spaghetti - gvee
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john the horse
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Hoosier said:
Shorty
Well-known member
john the horse said:
You makes I larf! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Shorty
Well-known member
David Eccles said:One of the key reasons behind the launch of 4/5+ as sister title to Camper and Commercial (my idea btw) was because I was not able (or willing) to devote more space to modern buses but was being inundated with lots of potential features and requests for more of them. To do so would have moved away from what CnC is all about. Since CnC hit the streets back in 2000 one of the things I have always tried to do was to cater for the whole bus community..and yes I know lots of you simply turn over those pages with modern stuff but there is a strong element of readership that likes to see them alongside vintage stuff..
its interesting to see that C&B started up having seen the success of CnC and that now a new 4/5 mag is being done by them - again after we launched our title.
But I guess that reflects the huge and growing ownership of those vehicles
As far as Camper and Commercial goes my basic balance tries to be 1/3 pre 67, 1/3 68-79, and 1/3 post 1980. So I guess that means 1/3 of he mag is of less (or no) interest to many of you on here but at end of day a mag is a commercial venture and has to try to hit a wide audience. But if we find the readership of modern stuff is moving over to 4/5+ I will have to look carefully at what is happening.
My heart and passion (as those of you know me will know) always has been and always will be T1 and T2 vintage buses - and yes though I no longer have a Splitty and drive a modern T5 thats more to do with my age and changed lifestyle needs rather than thinking modern buses are better.
I also always try to avoid "its been done up and is for sale syndrome"...I can't be doing with running a glorified for sale ad...I want to celebrate what people drive and live with...
hope this answers some of the q's here..
and if you have something you think would make a good mag feature then feel free to get in touch via [email protected]
And going monthly means more buses can be featured!!!!
Cheers
David
Fair play David for coming on here and explaining the logic from the mag standpoint... From a business viewpoint, what David says makes perfect sense....
I agree with what many have posted re:car park fodder taking up space in mags and at shows, but, the VW is pretty organic from what I have seen - it's always changing and developing, morphing itself into something new. We don't have to like it, I don't for one and can't see myself ever selling my aircooled ride to buy a builders van, but commercially the mag editors have to address the scene as a whole with a view to maximising circulation of their mags and in return keeping themselves afloat to write the next issue....
Just maybe, if it wasn't for the additional T4/T5 readership, then in these hard financial times these mags may not exist.. I don't know the figures of course, but it may be a risk...
On balance, if having a couple of pages dedicated to glorified plumbers wagons means I can still get my dose of aircooled articles then that's a bitter pill I'm OK with swallowing I suppose....
I reckon many of us, myself included would love to see the introduction of a UK aircooled only show.... they exist in europe and the states.... And I reckon David could be up for giving it some mag space too!
David Eccles
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one of things I will be keeping an eye in is impact if any of 4/5+ on CnC...cos if lots of modern bus owners migrate to that then the demographics of CnC readership may change which will obviously then be reflected in content...at the moment there are quite of lot of readers who either own/run a classic bus as well as a modern bus, or who own a modern bus but enjoy the heritage (and often used to own one and still love them) ... at the moment it seems as if 4/5+ is bringing in a diff new readership with not much cross over...
but rest assured that air cooled vintage EBs will always be prominent ....check out cover of new issue of mag, out sometime very soon, for Mr Brightside..what a lovely bus.....and also the feature on an original condition interior 1968 Devon Torvette very rare!
but rest assured that air cooled vintage EBs will always be prominent ....check out cover of new issue of mag, out sometime very soon, for Mr Brightside..what a lovely bus.....and also the feature on an original condition interior 1968 Devon Torvette very rare!
Shorty said:On balance, if having a couple of pages dedicated to glorified plumbers wagons means I can still get my dose of aircooled articles then that's a bitter pill I'm OK with swallowing I suppose....
I reckon many of us, myself included would love to see the introduction of a UK aircooled only show.... they exist in europe and the states.... And I reckon David could be up for giving it some mag space too!
I agree very much with the first comment here ... pages of adverts also help the mags survive, I may not read them, but its part of life ... features on post T25 stuff is about the same.
On the a/c show, again I agree, but probably think these days that financial constraints mean that 'bums on seats' come first. I guess it work in Europe because the wider net that can be cast in driving distances. Again, if having T4's and T5's at Camperjam and Busfest ensure theyre survival and success, then so be it.
Shorty
Well-known member
Clem said:Shorty said:On balance, if having a couple of pages dedicated to glorified plumbers wagons means I can still get my dose of aircooled articles then that's a bitter pill I'm OK with swallowing I suppose....
I reckon many of us, myself included would love to see the introduction of a UK aircooled only show.... they exist in europe and the states.... And I reckon David could be up for giving it some mag space too!
I agree very much with the first comment here ... pages of adverts also help the mags survive, I may not read them, but its part of life ... features on post T25 stuff is about the same.
On the a/c show, again I agree, but probably think these days that financial constraints mean that 'bums on seats' come first. I guess it work in Europe because the wider net that can be cast in driving distances. Again, if having T4's and T5's at Camperjam and Busfest ensure theyre survival and success, then so be it.
I fear you are right Clem....
retro.james
Well-known member
Once again David beat me to it!
For various reasons I've not had much time to get on any forum lately as anything other than a bit if a lurker but definitely had to respond this, although my answer is pretty much the same as David's.
The decision to produce a magazine dedicated to the T4/T5 owner has been a long time coming.
We've been looking at how the scene is developing and no matter what you (or I) might think about water-pumpers you can't ignore the increasing amount of them at shows.
Much like David at C&C we get so much T4/T5 related stuff sent to us at C&B that I could fill a magazine with it everymonth - so we have.
We've been keeping the good stuff (in the eyes of T4/T5 readers if not yours) back until the time was right to launch - and launch with the best possible mag we could produce.
As you may or may not know, we produce 13 issues a year, plus our annual campsite guide (Great Escapes) and technical magazines Keeping Your Bus Alive (KYBA) but there's definitely room for a(nother) mag geared towards the modern Bus scene.
If there's a market for it then as a business we'd be crazy not to look into it.
And yes - we are a business - all magazines are - it's just specialists titles like car mags are all produced by hard working enthusiasts under a larger corporate umbrella.
Does the launch of VWt mean we'll be dropping T4s and T5s from C&B?
Maybe, maybe not...
If that's the way it goes and what our readership wants then we'd be silly not to change with the times but as it is we're not about to tinker with a market leading magazine.
C&B is currently concerened with featuring VW Transporters of every generation although our bias is obviously towards the air-cooled scene.
By launching the new mag we're giving the T4/T5 owners more of what they want (and that we don't have room for in C&B) - if that means they migrate over to VWt instead of buying C&B then we'll look at what that could mean to C&B's content then...
We will definitely not double up content in either magazine though as that would be hugely unfair to any of our readers.
Likewise, if I know C&B, VolksWorld, Hayburner, Ultra, whoever have or are about to feature a vehicle we're interested in then we don't pursue it any further.
It happens occasionally - with some owners not telling us about having their Bus shot already - but not thankfully not that often.
I can't tell you how much it p*sses me off when we've gone to the trouble and expense of having something professionally shot and then it appears in another mag (with the same basic story) before or worse still, at the same time as our feature.
I also feel a little peeved when an owner wants to use their feature as a for sale ad - hence we haven't allowed them to do so for ages - nor will they be allowed to do so in the future - if they want to sell their Bus then it can go in the classified section at the back - not in the feature.
When it comes to the amount of advertising pages - I'm sorry to say that it really can't be helped.
It's a constant battle tyring to balance the amount of ads, eds and marketing pages - and the demand is always for more pages from all sides.
All magazines need to make money and one of the ways all of them do that is by selling ads to the businesses that want to advertise themselves to the largest possible market.
I personally hate the amount of pages I have to give over to ads (as I'm sure David and the other editors do) but they're also a valuable part of the mag - not just for generating revenue but for informing the reader about goods, services and vehicles they should be interested in.
There are air-cooled only magazines out there - VolksWorld, AirMighty, etc, but are you really saying you get 'nothing' out of other vehicles?
There are similar threads to this on the T4/T5 forum - they say pretty much the same as you guys - all the cars are the same, a lowered XXX, narrowed beam by XXX, I don't want to read about XXX - but then we also get letters from people - like in the next issue - saying they were T4 owners but have just sold it to buy a Bay because the magazine features inspired them to explore VWs history and own something older.
It's nice to know we've changed someone's perspective.
At the end of the day and when you think about it the VW scene has never had it so good, whatever type of VW you're into there is a magazine (or multiple) magazine catering for it.
And we all go about things in different ways - people buy C&B and C&C (and UltraVW and VolksWorld and all the others for that matter) because they like them all in different ways.
If there's one or two elements in the mag you've chosen to buy that you don't like then it's a pretty small price to pay (i'm not talking in monetary terms here) and next month there'll be another issue with new content. I'm not for a second saying if you don't like the mag don't buy it - I wouldn't be so crass - and it is a difficult time for the industry because if you're watching your pennies one of the first things you do is stop buying treats for yourself - like magazines - I'm just trying to say we try to strike a balance and give our readership what they're asking us for.
Currently, that's more Buses - of both air and water-cooled persuasion.
If any one feels like sharing their thoughts and opinions on this or any other matter please email me at [email protected] or come over and speak to me at a show - I'll be mooching around Busfest looking haggard all weekend having just got two magazines finished at the same time!
I am pretty much swamped at the mo but I will do my best to reply to you as soon as I possibly can.
Oh, and john the horse - I love your Vito - spent many a mile behind the wheel of one in a former life but not as visibly cool/invisibly knackered as yours!
For various reasons I've not had much time to get on any forum lately as anything other than a bit if a lurker but definitely had to respond this, although my answer is pretty much the same as David's.
The decision to produce a magazine dedicated to the T4/T5 owner has been a long time coming.
We've been looking at how the scene is developing and no matter what you (or I) might think about water-pumpers you can't ignore the increasing amount of them at shows.
Much like David at C&C we get so much T4/T5 related stuff sent to us at C&B that I could fill a magazine with it everymonth - so we have.
We've been keeping the good stuff (in the eyes of T4/T5 readers if not yours) back until the time was right to launch - and launch with the best possible mag we could produce.
As you may or may not know, we produce 13 issues a year, plus our annual campsite guide (Great Escapes) and technical magazines Keeping Your Bus Alive (KYBA) but there's definitely room for a(nother) mag geared towards the modern Bus scene.
If there's a market for it then as a business we'd be crazy not to look into it.
And yes - we are a business - all magazines are - it's just specialists titles like car mags are all produced by hard working enthusiasts under a larger corporate umbrella.
Does the launch of VWt mean we'll be dropping T4s and T5s from C&B?
Maybe, maybe not...
If that's the way it goes and what our readership wants then we'd be silly not to change with the times but as it is we're not about to tinker with a market leading magazine.
C&B is currently concerened with featuring VW Transporters of every generation although our bias is obviously towards the air-cooled scene.
By launching the new mag we're giving the T4/T5 owners more of what they want (and that we don't have room for in C&B) - if that means they migrate over to VWt instead of buying C&B then we'll look at what that could mean to C&B's content then...
We will definitely not double up content in either magazine though as that would be hugely unfair to any of our readers.
Likewise, if I know C&B, VolksWorld, Hayburner, Ultra, whoever have or are about to feature a vehicle we're interested in then we don't pursue it any further.
It happens occasionally - with some owners not telling us about having their Bus shot already - but not thankfully not that often.
I can't tell you how much it p*sses me off when we've gone to the trouble and expense of having something professionally shot and then it appears in another mag (with the same basic story) before or worse still, at the same time as our feature.
I also feel a little peeved when an owner wants to use their feature as a for sale ad - hence we haven't allowed them to do so for ages - nor will they be allowed to do so in the future - if they want to sell their Bus then it can go in the classified section at the back - not in the feature.
When it comes to the amount of advertising pages - I'm sorry to say that it really can't be helped.
It's a constant battle tyring to balance the amount of ads, eds and marketing pages - and the demand is always for more pages from all sides.
All magazines need to make money and one of the ways all of them do that is by selling ads to the businesses that want to advertise themselves to the largest possible market.
I personally hate the amount of pages I have to give over to ads (as I'm sure David and the other editors do) but they're also a valuable part of the mag - not just for generating revenue but for informing the reader about goods, services and vehicles they should be interested in.
There are air-cooled only magazines out there - VolksWorld, AirMighty, etc, but are you really saying you get 'nothing' out of other vehicles?
There are similar threads to this on the T4/T5 forum - they say pretty much the same as you guys - all the cars are the same, a lowered XXX, narrowed beam by XXX, I don't want to read about XXX - but then we also get letters from people - like in the next issue - saying they were T4 owners but have just sold it to buy a Bay because the magazine features inspired them to explore VWs history and own something older.
It's nice to know we've changed someone's perspective.
At the end of the day and when you think about it the VW scene has never had it so good, whatever type of VW you're into there is a magazine (or multiple) magazine catering for it.
And we all go about things in different ways - people buy C&B and C&C (and UltraVW and VolksWorld and all the others for that matter) because they like them all in different ways.
If there's one or two elements in the mag you've chosen to buy that you don't like then it's a pretty small price to pay (i'm not talking in monetary terms here) and next month there'll be another issue with new content. I'm not for a second saying if you don't like the mag don't buy it - I wouldn't be so crass - and it is a difficult time for the industry because if you're watching your pennies one of the first things you do is stop buying treats for yourself - like magazines - I'm just trying to say we try to strike a balance and give our readership what they're asking us for.
Currently, that's more Buses - of both air and water-cooled persuasion.
If any one feels like sharing their thoughts and opinions on this or any other matter please email me at [email protected] or come over and speak to me at a show - I'll be mooching around Busfest looking haggard all weekend having just got two magazines finished at the same time!
I am pretty much swamped at the mo but I will do my best to reply to you as soon as I possibly can.
Oh, and john the horse - I love your Vito - spent many a mile behind the wheel of one in a former life but not as visibly cool/invisibly knackered as yours!
Shorty
Well-known member
And who said magazine editors were like buses! You wait ages for one.........
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
hia, like a few owners on here we have a camper and the wife uses a 72 beetle everyday, but i have given up on the mags now, as someone said earlier they are dull and full of advert's. they are like top gear is now, worth watchin but not very usefull to most of us really, and the mags are like that ...so for me its a quick shuffty in tesco or smith's and back on the shelf..they have lost their rootes and need to focus back somehow, forget the moving with times (who f***ing started that idea with everything in life) leave thing's as they where........old is ok.
KevH
Well-known member
Shorty said:
...and two come along, both heading in the same direction, it seems. :lol:
It is good to have both editors share their views.
I guess whether we have more aircooled features in C&B and C&C depends on the amount and nature of the aircooled material that is sent to them by the likes of us.
Right, just off to send in some pics of my bus. Anybody joining in to see if we can crowd out the T4/5 stuff? :roll:
