Something missing

[Aardvark]

Hi friends.
I'm back again with another question. Pulled the engine out of the van to do a few jobs and a tidy up. But when I took of the fan housing, there were no flaps or any mechanism at all. Also there is no thermostat or bracket. The van ran ok before, so are these parts necessary and required? Do some engines come without? My engine is an American spec B5 engine code.
I'm scratching my head about this.
Any ideas?
Aardvark

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[sparkywig]

Well, as to whether they're required is subject to opinion.
But if they weren't necessary VW would've saved a few Deutschmarks and not fitted them. Ideally you'd want them working so that the engine warms up correctly and the flaps direct the cooling air over the heads.

 

[Aardvark]

Well, as to whether they're required is subject to opinion.
But if they weren't necessary VW would've saved a few Deutschmarks and not fitted them. Ideally you'd want them working so that the engine warms up correctly and the flaps direct the cooling air over the heads.

I agree completely. But my understanding is that the flaps would close to restrict airflow to the barrels when it's cold and open when the temp rises to direct cooling air over the barrels. Perhaps more essential in winter but as the van really only gets out in summer, it may not matter if it's getting cooling air continuously. Jk only seem to offer the thermostat, so I presume that all the other bits would have to be found 2nd hand. I'm really interested in differing opinions though as I know nowt and am learning all the time.
Aardvark

 

[sparkywig]

Yes, the flaps are shut when the engine is cold to allow the engine to warm up gradually until the thermostat operates.
The thermostat linkage doesn't actually open the flaps fully, but direct the majority of the cooling air onto the heads. Without the flaps in place the cooling air is only funnelled by the cylinder tinware.

 

[Aardvark]

I did a bit of searching on the internet and it would seem I am not alone in asking this question. It looks like it's far from unusual to have these parts removed. There are so many opinions that there isn't a definitive answer. The consensus is that they should be fitted if available. Mine aren't and I can't seem to find all the parts. However I have a warm up sequence in that I don't drive the van directly after starting. I always wait a couple of minutes. I will take a chance just now and build it all back together without. But keep an eye open should the parts become available. It could be that as it's an American engine, they felt there was little use for them in a sunny climate.
Aardvark

 

[Moseley]

There will be many an opinion on this, my take would be that all IC engines operate most efficiently and with the least wear when they are up to operating temperature. Running without a stat will make this process longer (even if only used in the summer) but will obviously be ‘better’ than an engine used in colder conditions. How much quicker will your engine wear out... who knows, there’s too many other factors to consider (driving style, servicing, van weight etc etc). As Simon has said above, it’s worth having the flaps installed at least as they direct the air where needed. Also, take a look at how well the tinware and engine seals fits together. Aftermarket is notoriously rubbish, and it goes without saying that any air leaks are going to have a negative effect on the cooling efficiency.

 

[mike202]

As said above the engine works most efficiently when at normal operating temperature which is why all modern water cooled cars have a thermostat also. The operating temperature is a lot higher than a warm 25deg day, more like 80-100 deg. The quicker the engine warms up means the metal moving parts are causing the least damage to one another. So the thermostat assembly is deffo worth having.
Just avoid the Mexican thermostats as they fail closed as opposed to the OG style bellows which fail in the open position.
Having said all that your engine will still work without one. Your choice [emoji3]



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[Aardvark]

Well, an evening on Ebay has managed to source all the parts I think. Just got to wait and see what turns up. Went for original type thermostat as I had read the new ones failed shut instead of open. Might be an urban myth though. Just hope its functional.
Aardvark

 

[redgaz54]

Also check the 'hoover bracket' is fitted to the base of your oil cooler, air can bypass cooler without it, often missing. Check rear l/h & r/h air deflector tinware is present, also often missing. Elbow tinware that air pipe from air cleaner joins onto is also fitted. Good luck .

 

[Aardvark]

Also check the 'hoover bracket' is fitted to the base of your oil cooler, air can bypass cooler without it, often missing. Check rear l/h & r/h air deflector tinware is present, also often missing. Elbow tinware that air pipe from air cleaner joins onto is also fitted. Good luck .

Now that's opened a whole new can of worms. I have no idea what these parts are. My oil cooler is the standard type not a doghouse. So I've got no idea about Hoover bracket. If I'm supposed to have it what does it look like and where does it go?
The 3 piece tinware under the pushrod tubes is present.
The air cleaner is an oil bath. It not connected to the cooling in any way that I can see other than the pipe that goes through the tin at the back skirt. Is there something fitted to that?
Aardvark

 

[sparkywig]

Single port engines don't have a doghouse oil cooler or "hoover" bit.
The flap rod is different to twin port fan shrouds as well. The single port fan shroud is much thinner than a twin port fan shroud, but you can retro fit a later fan housing with doghouse and fan.
I've got a single port flap rod you can have for the cost of postage if you want.

 

[sparkywig]

Fan comparison

 

[Aardvark]

On the drawing, what the heck are items 31-40 throttle flaps. I dont have any of that stuff.
I'll certainly accept you offer of that flap rod, thank you. Tell me the postage and I'll send you a PayPal.
I'll send you PM with my details.

 

[sparkywig]

Anything marked 66bhp in the diagram is type 4 engine.

 

[redgaz54]

The 50 mm air hose from your air cleaner shoul go through tinware and join onto 'this', the 'elbow' i previously mentioned.

 

[redgaz54]

Rear left and right air deflector tins i mentioned.

 

[redgaz54]

Sorry, didn't know your engine doesn't have a hoover bracket.

 

[Aardvark]

Ok, good. So now all I need to do is find this elbow for the air cleaner. I have the deflectors, so all that's ok. Guess I'll be on ebay for a while yet.
Thanks for all the fantastic info. I cant do without you guys.
Aardvark

 

[Aardvark]

Okydoky here is an update.
I got the flaps through from Ebay this morning. Sparkywig has very kindly sent me the link rod. I have bought the elbow for the air cleaner (nearly cried at the price, coming from USA) I did buy an thermostat, bracket and rod, but when it arrived, the bracket was missing and the thermostat was leaking, so sent back. As far as I can see my shopping list now is for another thermostat, a rod, a bracket and a return spring. I've also seen advertised little coil springs for the flaps. I'm not too sure about these. Where would they go? Also the flaps I got were originally cable operated. Looking at it, I think I just need to drill a hole in the operating lever to accept the thermostat rod. Can you guys think of anything else I need? Or obviously any additional information?
Thanks again
Aardvark