Oil cooling.

[la_bigmac]

Hello all,

I am looking for a little advise. I am just back from a 1300 mile trip in my 1973 Bay round Ireland starting from Portsmouth.
Had a great time and the van did not let me down. As I am sure you may have recently experienced very hot weather. The midday run back from Wales to Portsmouth was very hot so we plodded along just passing lorries to help the engine.

I would like to drive faster and do in cold weather, so I have started planning a winter project to install an external oil cooler so I can have a little peace of mind.

I have started reading about external oil cooling systems and thought I would drop a message here to find out pitfalls of a particular systems, things to avoid and ask a few questions.

1 - Full flow, can any type1 case be drilled to fit a full flow system? I think I have the blank on mine and I am confident I can drill and tap a hole.
2 - Is full flow better than / worth the hassle compared to a Maxi pump 3?
3 - What is the best location for the oil cooler (with fan and thermostat)?

1973 Bay, Engine 1776 (Engine Shop, fast road cam), duel weber cabs, electric fuel pump, 123 Tune distributor, stupid loud SS Exhaust with J tubes.

When the engine is out I will spend some time "adjusting" the tinware, it could fit better and blow more over the heads. In winter I replace the J tubes with heat exchangers but getting warm air to the front is still work in progress, bloody cables..

Photo of my van on Inch Beach, Ireland. Thanks for reading and any advise.

Mat.

 

[fallingoffalot]

1. Yes it can, I'm also running a 1776, the previous owner drilled and tapped the case. BUT I was told they've done it in the wrong (old?) place, it still works fine but it does interfere with the tin. I had to do some cutting and grinding of the tin round the pulley to make room for the outlet hose. Apologies if you already know where to put the new holes, but get advice on the correct location if you don't. I'll post an image of mine later so you can see the issue.

 

[la_bigmac]

1. Yes it can, I'm also running a 1776, the previous owner drilled and tapped the case. BUT I was told they've done it in the wrong (old?) place, it still works fine but it does interfere with the tin. I had to do some cutting and grinding of the tin round the pulley to make room for the outlet hose. Apologies if you already know where to put the new holes, but get advice on the correct location if you don't. I'll post an image of mine later so you can see the issue.

Thanks, I will check out the clearance before I take anything apart! This will be a break from the norm.

 

[fallingoffalot]

Here's a photo, at about 8 o'clock on the pulley the tin is cut away to make room for the hose elbow.



Here's the cutout on the faceplate tin

 

[la_bigmac]

Here's a photo, at about 8 o'clock on the pulley the tin is cut away to make room for the hose elbow.

View attachment 3044

Here's the cutout on the faceplate tin
View attachment 3045

Thanks for the pictures, very helpful. Both out and the return look close to the belt, I will dig into the other return location to see if I can minimise that.

 

[fallingoffalot]

Also forgot to mention that I have to remove the pulley to get the belt off, so I always carry a 32mm spanner!

 

[mike202]

I would make sure all your tinware and seals are in place first as this is the most important part of the cooling of the engine, before adding an external oil cooler.
Someone else mentioned (can’t remember who) about using a lamp under the engine and looking in the engine bay to see if there are any gaps where you can see light coming in. Then you can try to minimise these gaps.

I think full flow oil is a good idea with a bigger engine but it apparently doesn’t help cooling just cleans the oil better than just the stock mesh strainer.

The hot weather definitely affects the engine temps but still shouldn’t cause over heating if everything (seals and tinware) is in place.

Nice pic of your recent holiday

 

[la_bigmac]

I would make sure all your tinware and seals are in place first as this is the most important part of the cooling of the engine, before adding an external oil cooler.
Someone else mentioned (can’t remember who) about using a lamp under the engine and looking in the engine bay to see if there are any gaps where you can see light coming in. Then you can try to minimise these gaps.

I think full flow oil is a good idea with a bigger engine but it apparently doesn’t help cooling just cleans the oil better than just the stock mesh strainer.

The hot weather definitely affects the engine temps but still shouldn’t cause over heating if everything (seals and tinware) is in place.

Nice pic of your recent holiday

Thanks Mike, The feed back from TES was the Maxi route, but timware and the engine support will need to be modified. You are right I will look for and close any gaps on the aftermarket tinware first.

 

[Earl Bay]

Did you already think about those polycarbonate earz for the air intake?
I tried those on a 2074cc and am under the impression it works quite well in 30°C+ conditions "driving around town"
Well, more like up to 100km through the countryside up to 90km/h, not long stretches on motorways, but still pushing it up decent grades.
Haven't done any long distance driving yet though so will have to see come september.
The test is cheaper than tapping the case though.

 

[gagvanman]

So where is the "new" place to drill and tap?

 

[pierrox]

those polycarbonate earz for the air intake

Those do help a lot, especially on the early bay with its smaller air intakes. Can easily drop 10° on the oil temp with a pair.

 

[mike202]

Nice to know those ‘earz’ work as I have a pair kept in the back locker in case of very high ambient temperatures.
Although the engine fan sucks in its own air I thought just having a bigger volume of air coming in to the engine bay area may help it a little. However if you’ve ever had a look at the Samba forum and Late Bay there’s quite a few negative comments there!
I don’t think I would like having to rely on them to keep the oil temp down all the time.

 

[la_bigmac]

So where is the "new" place to drill and tap?

Not sure yet, its was something @fallingoffalot mentioned.

TES said to not drill an installed motor, because swarf will enter the engine they have a point, so that is another X in the full flow column.
But the Maxi needs the piping (x2) in an area where there is little space. Pulley tinware, and engine support will need to be modified.

I went over my tinware at the weekend, I need to block off the hot air hole (To the heat exchangers) when not in use, that will help some heat not entering the cool zone from the exhaust. The rest seemed to in fair order, could be better but I cannot do a proper job unless I pull it, which I will do at the end of the season.

I was also thinking about wrapping the exhaust.

 

[la_bigmac]

Did you already think about those polycarbonate earz for the air intake?
I tried those on a 2074cc and am under the impression it works quite well in 30°C+ conditions "driving around town"
Well, more like up to 100km through the countryside up to 90km/h, not long stretches on motorways, but still pushing it up decent grades.
Haven't done any long distance driving yet though so will have to see come september.
The test is cheaper than tapping the case though.

No not something I had seen before. Reviews seem positive and would be a quick way to make a difference especially to the heads! Thanks for that I think I will get a set before my next trip to Cornwall.

 

[Earl Bay]

Just be aware they are fragile as hell. Bring them up to temperature carefully with a heat gun so they become more flexible.
DON'T try it without heating them. There is a 90% chance you'll break them.
And don't be amazed if you come back to the bus and one is missing for no apparent reason.
That's why mine are more or less permanent now

 

[sparkywig]

So where is the "new" place to drill and tap?

Mine's done here.

 

[la_bigmac]

Mine's done here.

View attachment 3118View attachment 3119View attachment 3120

Looks like a very neat job, beyond the drilling and tapping was the case modified at all for using this location?
The machine shop pic (1) looks like they built up some weld, could just be the pic angle because the last pic (3) looks stock.

This location should prove less problematic for tinware, just need to route under the exhaust I guess.

This might be a silly questions, but is anyone aware of any documentation or measurements for drilling in this location? I guess if the case is apart then you can look for the oil gallery.

Thanks for sharing the pictures.

 

[sparkywig]

Drilled, tapped and plugged the oil galley between the two AN fittings.

 

[K@rlos]

A maxi pump is a bit of a half arsed idea and they won’t clear the engine bar. The proper full flow method is more work but much more efficient.

This is how I did it on the 2276 in my bay, clears the tinware and exhaust fine.


Gene berg 26mm blue printed & o ringed oil pump with pressure relief cover with AN-10 lines into a remote filter under l/h battery tray with a thermostatic sandwich plate which feeds the cooler next to the gearbox.

Does your bus actually need a cooler? What temps does it run at? Clarify that before spending a **** load of money on parts and Machine work.

 

[la_bigmac]

A maxi pump is a bit of a half arsed idea and they won’t clear the engine bar. The proper full flow method is more work but much more efficient.

This is how I did it on the 2276 in my bay, clears the tinware and exhaust fine.


Gene berg 26mm blue printed & o ringed oil pump with pressure relief cover with AN-10 lines into a remote filter under l/h battery tray with a thermostatic sandwich plate which feeds the cooler next to the gearbox.

Does your bus actually need a cooler? What temps does it run at? Clarify that before spending a **** load of money on parts and Machine work.

It not running too hot because I drive deliberately slower, but I want to drive faster.

So far I have been using the "ignorance is bliss" tactic. Sometimes the Dip stick is too hot to touch, not very scientific but as road side test it works. My distributor temperature gauge only goes to 100 deg C and sadly its pinned to the max on long journeys. I will work on getting better temperature readings.

The reason I was asking all these questions is because I will have some time over the winter to make some changes. I am finding out what works and what does not so I can make plans. Yours is the third full flow configuration in this thread, looks tidy and trouble free.

I assume the machine shop work was done before the motor was fully assembled?