Full flow setup without using pump cover

[uladk84]

Hey guys, I've torn down the engine from my new van, and I'm seeing scored bearings and crank journals, as well as a previous line bore (.5mm/.020"). I want to drill and tap the case for a full flow setup, and minimise any future wear.

The catch is that the engine uses an adapter plate for mounting to the moustache bar (bug engine I guess? AE code), so I can't use the most common method of creating an out pathway from the pump cover.

Looking at the lubrication diagram, it looks like I can tap an out pathway where the usual setup oil return line would go, and add tap my return into the plug foward and above of the oil pressure switch, and still utilise the oil pressure release valve.

It looks like full flow setups on type 3 engines use this method due to their engine support bar clearance to the oil pump, but will this method cause any issues? Are there any major differences with the oil flow from the pump cover method? How would the galley be plugged (like the pump gets plugged) to direct the oil externally to the filter first? I'm using this thread as my reference: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7890596, about half way down (post by richparker).

My van is a 72 crossover, and I'm going from 1584cc to 1776cc.
Cheers

 

[K@rlos]

Those engine adaptor kits really are not a good soultion, the weight, torque and vibration from said engine are being soaked up through 4 8mm studs rather than the the more substantial bolts and mounts in a proper bus case. I’ve seen issues with these, Vw didn’t think the oil pump would be suitable for a 50hp 1600 and realistically a more powerful 1776 isn’t a great idea in my eyes. In the long term you’d be far better off using the correct case which is properly mounted which in turn will enable you to use the tried, tested & proven full flow set up.

Just my thoughts

 

[mike.s]

I`ve got the full flow setup which doesn`t use the oil pump cover.

Normally, you block oil pump outlet, but with this one, behind the lower outlet, you tap and plug the main gallery behind it. This forces the oil to route to the oil filter.

I`ve only got pics after i have fitted the adaptors i`m afraid, but you can see.

It was done this way on mine to prevent intereference around the engine support bar, as its pretty busy round there with the exhaust, etc!

My case does have the mounts for the support bar so i don`t need to use the adaptor you mention above.

Hope that helps!

Mike

 

[mike.s]

I didn`t route the pipes through the tinware as in the first pic, but welded those holes back up once i`d faffed with where they were going byt the way.

 

[uladk84]

Cheers guys for the info.

I remember when removing the moustache bar, that only 2 of the 3 bolts were attaching it to the adapter plate (bottom and right ear bolts when looking at the pulley). Looking again, I have the proper engine case boss for the moustache bar on the left side only. I can't afford to source another case so I will have to stick with the adapter plate, but now I can at least take some of the load off the oil pump studs by drilling and tapping a bolt hole on the case left side. Would you (A) just stick a new bolt into the case boss through the left adapter plate ear, or (B) cut off the left ear and bolt the left side of the moustache bar directly to the case with a thick washer? I think (B) is a better option as 66% of the engine weight and energy will go through the adapter plate, while the other 33% would be supported directly by the bar. Thoughts?

mike.s, thanks for the photos. Do you remember the tap size for the main galley? Can the plug be removed easily for clean purposes? I assume if it can go in, it can come out!

 

[mike.s]

Hi - I `m afraid i don`t know the size of the tap. The machine shop did it for me. Oddly, they tapped it for a large stud which was machined thin in the middle, so i put lock tight on it, screwed it in tight and then snapped it off, never to come out again.

Looking back, if i`d done it, i would`ve tapped it for one of the plugs that you replace in the case, then screwed in a plug with an allen key drive. I replaced the other plugs in the case with these, so i `m still not sure why they didn`t do it with the allen plug!

I`m actually running an engine (temporarily) in my van which i borrowed from our beetle! That case didn`t have the 3 mount points and as i didn`t have one of those oil pump cover adaptors handy, i drilled the two available lugs on the case and then helicoiled them both the same as my bus engine case is. I`m happy with this for a temporary thing and me keeping an eye on it.

If you do tap the case on that one lug, buy a helicoil kit which will come with the correct drill, insert and tool - they`re only about £10-£15. If you don`t helicoil the hole and just tap it, then as the case is aluminium/mag, the engine will just vibrate and take out the threads renderering the bolt useless.

Cheers

 

[uladk84]

thanks Mike, I appreciate your experience.

Now I'm torn between going ahead with these modifications, or saving up and buying a new case after reading about the magnesium vs aluminium differences and reusing old mag cases. If I was to buy a new alu case, would this one be recommended? https://www.coolairvw.co.uk/Item/Sh...1025AM/90.5mm_Aluminium_Engine_Crankcase.html

 

[K@rlos]

On a mild engine an ally case is over kill. They are ALOT heavier and many need a lot of work to make useable as unfortunately the quality control is rather poor.

 

[Happystamps]

My engine is pretty similar to yours, I think. I ended up cutting one of the ears off the adaptor. It's not an ideal solution but has worked for me so far.

 

[Zcat7]

I built a 1776 using an Auto Linea case from Coolair. It's a great engine. The case is a bit heavier for sure but way stronger and in a bus the weight difference of that case by percentage of the whole vehicle is negligible - like carrying a 12 pack of beers in the boot? I had to adjust the tinware a little and the sump pickup pipe was shit but I'm told that this is how all the later ones are - change it over if you can for a stock one. Other than that I just made sure that I thoroughly cleaned everything as the only negative reports I'd heard about the Auto Linea cases was that they aren't always completely free of swarf.

I had done a build thread on here but sadly Photobucket has put paid to the pictures... Happy to answer questions though and post any specific piccies you might want.