mot changes

[67panel]

So it looks like no mot needed as a 40 year exemption coming in , might be a good thing as they are adding in a environmental failure so an oil leak would be one . The more worrying thing is "substantially altered " vehicles are not exempt so a Subaru motor or suspension mods may be counted.Looks like a back door way to stop Hot Rods etc but it will affect some of us. They are trying to make it so a modded vehicle will need regeresting as new and will have to meet currant emission regs Big brother ***** on us again

 

[mike.s]

i think this 'substantially' altered' is a very grey area to be honest - but can understand how they need that - they couldn`t possibly cover all the different mods made to all the different vehicles out there.

I do think this is a bad idea though - there are so many old classics out there and i would say that only 30-40% of owners have the knowledge or experience to keep an eye on the vehicles underlying condition.

How many people have actually spotted a cracking steering coupling or a worn ball joint or a corroded brake pipe?

I like to think i`m pretty handy having rebuilt several aircooleds from scratch, but there are things i often miss still.

Took my mk2 golf for an mot last week and it failed on a rear corroded brake pipe hooked up behind the chassis. When it was up on the ramps and good access, it was obvious to see but i`d still not seen it.

I for one will be still tkaing my vehicles for an mot - best make sure they don`t have any oil leaks if i want a pass!

 

[paul_q]

I have seen hot rods built with fibreglass body's and brand new chassis with modern engines using 40s & 50s log books. I'm guessing it's aimed at that sort of thing not modified vw's.

 

[thejinx]

I am currently getting mine ready for MOT. by the time the salt is off the road it will be May so the temptation is not to do it but the other side of me says to get it done for piece of mind. There was a similar thread a few months ago on this topic and the general consensus was MOT is good.

 

[Tofufi]

They are trying to make it so a modded vehicle will need regeresting as new and will have to meet currant emission regs Big brother ***** on us again

No, they're not.

The current modification rules have been in places since 1992 - determining what constitutes a radically altered (in the eyes of DVSA, 'new') vehicle.

The only recent changes have been a proposal to make vehicles undergoing BIVA testing have to meet the current MOT standard - which is also unchanged for cars built since about 1992.

 

[lemur]

:? well this is all very confusing to me!

So will I now need an MOT in October because my bus is 'substantially modded' with the Subaru lump? I'm happy mot it (and probably will anyway) but would love to know where I stand legally like

L

 

[gas1man]

I will certainly be getting an MOT every year regardless of age.

Insurance companies will find some wording to wriggle out of it if it happens, make no mistake.
The guys at work who run classics not only bikes but cars have been talking about how you would prove that your vehicle
was ROADWORTHY at the time when something (heaven forbid) went wrong. Not only to the insurance, but the police if
deemed necessary.With family occasionally travelling with ,I want them safe of course.

They just might find something I have overlooked on an MOT I ain't perfect that's for sure. :lol: :lol:

J & P

 

[67panel]

The substantially altered bit is a grey area at the moment as no guide lines set yet. TBH I don't think it will affect us but the environmental aspect will, most of the other changes are for modern motors

 

[Mr Bean]

Think the way I've read it, is it's sort of a self certification thing were you need to apply for mot exemption

 

[Clem]

:? well this is all very confusing to me!

So will I now need an MOT in October because my bus is 'substantially modded' with the Subaru lump? I'm happy mot it (and probably will anyway) but would love to know where I stand legally like

L

Yes, engine 'type' changes mean you will require an mot.

Changes such as narrowed suspension, flipped spindles, beam swaps etc will be mot exempt as the 'type' of suspension remains the same. If you have a Red 9 wishbone system fitted with a steering rack etc, then you will require an mot.

I cant see much that most chassis repairs or minor modifications will afeect stuff but body drops will probably require mot'ing.

As I have said/written before, if you have any doubt (about eligibility, insurance validation or your bus itself) then get an MOT. Otherwise, enjoy the perk.

 

[Tofufi]

I cant see much that most chassis repairs or minor modifications will afeect stuff but body drops will probably require mot'ing.

Agreed with all of your post - but I'd say that anything that'd had a body-drop isn't the original vehicle in the eyes of the DVLA and technically needs an BIVA and new registration.

 

[Clem]

I cant see much that most chassis repairs or minor modifications will afeect stuff but body drops will probably require mot'ing.

Agreed with all of your post - but I'd say that anything that'd had a body-drop isn't the original vehicle in the eyes of the DVLA and technically needs an BIVA and new registration.

You could well be right. 'If' I had a body drop (never gonna happen) I'd get an MOT and keep schtumn. :msn4:

 

[Pellwood]

Here is an article which goes in to some more detail and defines the process for applying for MOT exemption. You may have seen it already. So apologies if I’m reposting old stuff.
The article also has details of what would constitute a change to a vehicle that would negate its MOT exemption. It also states that these changes are not related to vehicle registrations, just whether a vehicle is a VHI and thus MOT exempt. The article is not specific to classic VWs but general guidelines for all classic vehicles
Happy reading

https://classics.honestjohn.co.uk/news/general-news/2017-12/in-depth-the-department-for-transports-guidance-on-the-mot-exemption-for-classic-cars-over-40/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[StuF]

Yes, engine 'type' changes mean you will require an mot.

Changes such as narrowed suspension, flipped spindles, beam swaps etc will be mot exempt as the 'type' of suspension remains the same. If you have a Red 9 wishbone system fitted with a steering rack etc, then you will require an mot.

I cant see much that most chassis repairs or minor modifications will afeect stuff but body drops will probably require mot'ing.

As I have said/written before, if you have any doubt (about eligibility, insurance validation or your bus itself) then get an MOT. Otherwise, enjoy the perk.

Mike - As im sure you may have seen there has been another rather more heated thread discussing these changes over on the latebay forum - my own take on the engine change legislation took a slightly different tack to you due to the way the guidance was written.

It states:

Engine – alternative cubic capacities of the same basic engine and alternative
original equipment engines are not considered a substantial changeIf the number of cylinders in an engine is different from the original, it is likely to be, but not necessarily, the case that the current engine is not alternative original equipment.

So a flat 4 cylinder 1600cc (VW) boxer engine compared a flat 4 cylinder 2.0/2.5cc (Subaru) boxer engine - is that a substantial change?

Further to the number of cylinders how about the guys who are running 6 cylinder Corvair/Porsche engines?
Although Aircooled, they are not VW engines and have an extra pair of cylinders is that considered to be a substantial change?

Axles and running gear – alteration of the type and or method of suspension or
steering constitutes a substantial change;

So a power-steering kit or fitting any form of air-ride suspension - is that substantial?

Im not trying to start another heated discussion however the application of the stated legislation can be open to an individuals interpretation.

Also worth bearing in mind BayWindow Buses were getting made in Brazil until relatively recently (2014) with an Inline 4 cylinder watercooled 1.4l Flex fuel Fox engine.

So according to the legislation:

The following are considered acceptable (not substantial) changes if they fall into
these specific categories:

• changes of a type, that can be demonstrated to have been made when
vehicles of the type were in production or in general use (within ten years of
the end of production)

So VW Baywindow buses were being made with watercooled engines upto 2014 which is well within the 10 years of end of production. And were 4 cylinder however constructed an inline layout.

Two different layouts (flat 4 and inline 4), same number of cylinders, same fuel system (petrol) - my take on it is that installing a Subaru engine is not a substantial change :msn4:

But will still get a MOT due to my local garage being an excellent aircooled specialist

Whats everyone elses take on the situation? 8)

 

[ozziedog]

I think most people have their own interpretation of the word substantial and that may be deliberate to allow a fair bit of flexibility . I don’t think the powers that be are that interested in a diminishing number of older motors and possibly this is just their way of letting us be a little self policing but woe betide anyone in an altercation after an accident. I think that so long as most peeps play nicely that we’ll be left to our own devices, but I think it’s s smart move to pay to have a professional take a look at your bus once a year or more because I’m guessing that the new mot will be a little tough on my drum brakes and my screen wash too :shock: :shock: :shock: Whatever they’re gonna do, it is pretty much out of our control and second guessing what the real reason is will drive you bonkers. Hey Stu, were never a hundred percent what our own agenda is let alone someone else’s

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,,roll on summer and worry about the price of Stella :mrgreen:

 

[Clem]

Mike - As im sure you may have seen there has been another rather more heated thread discussing these changes over on the latebay forum - my own take on the engine change legislation took a slightly different tack to you due to the way the guidance was written...

Hi Stu

I haven't been on Late Bay, but I see such discussion every day on FB :lol:

Yes, I can see your train of thought on the engine thing, and its certainly argueable.

My take, which is all it is, is that replacing a low power aircooled engine with a modern watercooled powerful one would be a substantial change, as would bolting in a Corvair engine, basically anything that requires replacement/modification of gearbox, mountings, flywheels etc would be substantial to me. I know there is the Brazilian thing, but I'd also say the water cooled bay is a different production run than the aircooled bus, again, just my take.

Bolt on power steering wouldn't be substantial as its a bolt on to the original system. Hydro's/airbags? Could be argued as an upgrade/modification to original suspension type I'd say?

 

[StuF]

Yep agreed - its such a open bit of legislation that could be interpreted any number of ways.
Im very interested to see how it all turns out and what if any action is taken against people/buses that seemingly fall outside the "rules"
There has been loads of chatter ref a £50 safety check that is less than a tank of fuel in the scheme of things.
Wonder how many peeps will be patrolling the shows this year checking the MOT status of vehicles parked up.

Im with Ozzie - Im a little more concerned about getting a couple beers in and enjoying camping in some nice weather with some good friends!

 

[Clem]

Im with Ozzie - Im a little more concerned about getting a couple beers in and enjoying camping in some nice weather with some good friends!

Amen! :mrgreen:

 

[Webbaldo]

If it helps, I rang the DVLA to clarify something yesterday

Direct from them. If you currently have a van that's taxed and insured but NOT tested (like me as mines in storage and MOT ran out in feb, but taxed till 2019) You can legally drive it from May 20th without an MOT

You don't need to wait until you retax it. You do have to declare it MOT exempt though the first time you retax it (first time at the post office, then online from there on) This months camper and commercial got it wrong as they stated it can be done online the first time. The DVLA said the system cant work like that. Pretty much the same as when the pre-1960 rule came out.

I rang them to clarify this as some daft FB comments were saying you'd have to sorn, then retax just to get the MOT exemption which is complete rubbish.

Problem is most of these threads turn into 'should or shouldn't' you threads. Upto the individual.

On the plus side, if you do have a modified bus this months CC mag does have a handy guide in, assuming the rest is accurate :msn4:

 

[Moseley]

So what do you have to do if it is currently taxed? Can you get it declared at the post office part-way through the 12 months as being a historic vehicle?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk