monkeyvanwestybike said:
We have the " Dipstickless" system on our Disco at work
if you forget to check oil from cold before you start the engine
and then start the engine and stop it not letting it warm up
it will come up one the service menu as " Not available" or sometimes add 1.5 litres of oil
you then have to run till hot then wait 15 mins before you get the correct reading
To many lights and buzzers for me I would rather have the Dipstick :lol:
Ahh, hassle! Hopefully this system will not be as buggy as that! :shock:
Mags said:
Well, in theory (I think) the same amount of fluid will be returning to the sump as is being sucked out. The crank doesn't touch the oil in the sump, so if the engine is in neutral and not moving the level should remain consistent I would have thought.
Good point, I just cannot understand why they need the engine running though, surely it would be better to measure the sump level when it is static, there must be a benefit to checking it whilst running. I assume it checks the level and the pressure at the same time? Not sure..
K@rlos said:
Dipsticks can't go wrong either
Haha :lol: This is true, although I have seen a few cars where the dip-stick was 'messy' if you just pulled it out and checked the level, which meant that you could not get an accurate reading. You actually had to pull the dip-stick out and wait 5 minutes or so for the oil in the dip-stick tube to drip back down into the sump, then check again. :| The car I am directly referring to was Ford Ka. :?
67panel said:
the worst bit is when you do an oil change as you have to get it warm before it will read and if its low and you top it up it takes 5mins to give correct reading WHATS WRONG WITH A CHEAP BL**DY DIP STICK.some still have the tube but capped of,why?
Yep, I like to check again and again after doing an oil change to ensure the engine has protection before starting the engine. Having to start the engine to check the oil level, to then be told that it needs more seems counter productive. :?
Although I had a proper look at the car today and opened the bonnet and it DOES still have an dip-stick! :mrgreen:
The car is packed full of electronics, so I guess it gives the owner a choice of how to check the engine, especially if you do not know anything about engines.
Happystamps said:
Funnily enough a colleague and I have been designing dipstick assemblies for new cars recently... Pretty standard, no electronic gadgets in these.
I imagine with the electronic versions, you'll have a baffled section with a level gauge in it and you'll get an average level from that. If it's done well enough it shouldn't vary too much.
You're all right though, all this electronic stuff is bollocks.
AH, an engineer's reply is very welcomed 8)
Any idea why it NEEDS to be running? That is what is teasing and confusing me, incase anyone has not noticed :lol:
:scared0012:
P.S. Did you design the old style Ford Ka's dip-stick?
Moseley said:
I'm sure it is all a money-making ploy from the dealerships. Designing cars in this way makes it harder for the home mechanic to do their own servicing and they're almost forced into having to take it into a garage. With the way some of these specialist tools are made and how much they cost, it won't be long before motorists are forced to take it into the main dealer rather than a back street one.
Interesting point.
I asked where the service book was for the car and was informed that it does not have one, meaning that it has not been lost, but that it doesn't come with one! :shock:
Instead, all of the service data is stored on the key, on some kind of Flash memory I am guessing. So the idea is, the car tells you a service is due, you take the car to the service department, they 'scan' the key, it tells them what is due to be done, they complete the work, update the key which also in-turn updates the car's on-board computer.
I thought that this could be a positive and a negative:
Positive:
Imagine that you are buying the car, you do not have to listen to the lies of the previous owner about the service history, instead you can check for yourself on the cars computer. Although, as with all of these systems, I am sure it will be cracked and people will learn how to update the systems themselves, however, at least you should not have a car with 'lost paperwork' :roll:
Negative:
I have always had 8+ year old cars and completed all servicing myself. This is a new car, so hopefully I will not have to do anything to it for a while (it's the misseseseseseses), but I was thinking about how I would actually update the service records, because as you rightly say, at the moment I believe it is only official deals who have that capability!
Marriedblonde said:
Mine has both, electronic through the dash and a good old fashion stick in the engine bay.
But to be fair I don't check it, if it tells me to add a litre I do if not it goes in for a service. Its a modern car with a warranty so no need to worry
J.
Yes, actually got to have a good look at the car today and found a proper dip-stick as well as the electronic system.
lard said:
Hi - my mini clubman s used to have a dipstick - but then it was doing a litre every 600 miles and mini said this was "within tolerance" :shock:
Anyway - I imagine the reason why it's electronic and not mechanical is two fold... with electronic if engine damage occurs due to low oil there will be a record of this, also with the recent issues with the cooper s's drinking oil it will also be easier for them to diagnose otherwise they have to fill it, seal the oil cap and then get the customer to come back after 1000 miles and they check it again, there have been noted issues with the oil consumption and this would save money investigating under warranty as all checkable via onboard computer
The other and probably likely reason is machine to machine or "the internet of things" - this is essentially connecting everything together - I work for a well known ISP/Mobile company and the machine to machine team are already putting SIM's in Audi, BMW e.t.c. - for both remote diagnostics and also internet access - with all metrics on the vehicle logged, and accessible at any time it will be much easier to introduce flexible service intervals (car tells the dealer it needs oil) and also remote diagnostics
the future looks like this, the car detects a problem, it analyses it and then calls back into the manufacturer with the results, these are crunched, compared to the status of other cars and they can tell if it's a wider issue or just your vehicle, they then either adjust the car remotely to get around the problem or ask you to take the car to be looked at - premium brands may even notify you that your car will be swapped out automatically, just confirm on the menu in car when you will be leaving it for 4 hours or longer, and they will then come and fix it (having the rights parts already, knowing what the issue is) or swap it for a replacement - all while you are at work or home without having to speak to anyone
essentially - that's why there's no dip-stick - why would a human need to check the oil when the car is meshed with the manufacturer and every other model in a hive like fashion continually updating and adjusting...........
the requirement for a dipstick was one of the last links between man and vehicle .... now the car is way more qualified to check it's own oil, remove "human error" and oh, the extra cost to install the electronic dipstick is paid for by you - makes it harder and harder to self service and therefore ties the customer to the brand even more
Yes, totally good points, I am sure there is even a counter to see how many times I have looked at the 'check oil' system...... Quite a lot, I think I'm covered :lol:
golf gt said:
As far as I'm aware the new f series minis still have a sensor in the sump, measurement can only take place with a hot engine running at idle, it's a pretty good system that works and is easy to check, dipsticks are even better but unfortunately most people these days don't know how to open the bonnet!
What did you think to the rest of the car, they have some nice trick bits as standard now.
67panel- regarding the roll away, it's to stop people from getting out there car in gear, easily bypassed by plugging a seatbelt in (like the passenger one) then it thinks your not going to fall out!
I'm a BMW tech hence the nerdy answers!
Cheers
BMW Tech - excellent!
Prepare for my questions :lol:
Any idea why it NEEDS to be running to electronically check the oil? :|
Regarding the rest of the car, it is not my car, but I have to admit, it is quite a massive upgrade from the older cars we have been used to. I actually really like the 'girly' mood lights
It makes it a nice place to be.
We have the new German (built in Austria) 1.5d engine, which I believe is a Twin Turbo, although we are taking it easy for the first few thousand miles as a 'running in' period.
The only points I am disappointed with really is the width of the 15" alloy wheels (175s - a bit too skinny) and the reversing lights are not very bright, but then they are only small slits.
Also, a bit more space by the clutch would be nice, I constantly clip the 'rest block' next to it.
Apart from that though, as I say, a massive upgrade really!
Now, for anyone interested, here is what has caused all the fuss: