Converting Oil Hoses to hydraulics?

[Ldv126]

Hi All

First time poster....!

We have a '68 Dormobile with a 1914 engine that's been great for the last few years - had it since 2003, full restoration; love it! - it has a full flow oil system (proper filter / external cooler underneath / hydraulic hoses / jubilee clips).

We've had the odd oil hose problem where it popped off the engine which we can usually fix (replace filter sometimes / put it back together / top up oil etc). The last time it happened was on the motorway - had to call breakdown man, who had a quick glance and said "Wrong hoses. They're hydraulic hoses and the jubilee clips won't compress them enough. You need proper hydraulic hoses".

That all makes sense, but just finding info on getting hydraulic hoses made and fitted is proving 'challenging'!

Can anyone help with a couple of things?
1) What's the right thing to do, to stop oil hoses coming off?
2) Is there some useful information out there that I can have a read of to understand what I need to do if I want to go hydraulic?!?

I'm sure I'll need to provide more info - just let me know what!

Cheers in advance...

 

[sparkywig]

Build your own oil lines using braided hose with AN fittings. I use the ebay seller below for my parts.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360881217559?hash=item5406326017:g:uJcAAOxye2lSXp19

 

[ozziedog]

Hi All

First time poster....!

We have a '68 Dormobile with a 1914 engine that's been great for the last few years - had it since 2003, full restoration; love it! - it has a full flow oil system (proper filter / external cooler underneath / hydraulic hoses / jubilee clips).

We've had the odd oil hose problem where it popped off the engine which we can usually fix (replace filter sometimes / put it back together / top up oil etc). The last time it happened was on the motorway - had to call breakdown man, who had a quick glance and said "Wrong hoses. They're hydraulic hoses and the jubilee clips won't compress them enough. You need proper hydraulic hoses".

That all makes sense, but just finding info on getting hydraulic hoses made and fitted is proving 'challenging'!

Can anyone help with a couple of things?
1) What's the right thing to do, to stop oil hoses coming off?
2) Is there some useful information out there that I can have a read of to understand what I need to do if I want to go hydraulic?!?

I'm sure I'll need to provide more info - just let me know what!

Cheers in advance...

I’m thinking that possibly a few wires have got crossed here.
“If you want to go hydraulic “
I don’t think that is exactly what you’re after, usually when people talk about ‘going hydraulic’ and a bay window in the same sentence, usually they’re talking about making the suspension hydraulic. As Wig says above ^^^ talk to someone about getting oil hoses made up and tell them what they’re for and try and leave the word hydraulic out of the conversation. I can’t guarantee this but I’m pretty much gonna agree with your breakdown peeps and say that hydraulic hoses have to deal with much higher pressures than oil hoses so may be much more rigid, not sure if they have to deal with the temperature that oil hoses have to deal with though. Hydraulic is a term that has lots of variables in meaning, it can mean to deal with water or liquid but generally speaking it’s about using a special oil forced usually by pump from one cylinder into another through a one way valve to increase or raise the pressure like in a hydraulic Jack or on the arms of a digger etc. If you look at your spigots that your oil hoses connect to, there should be a barb or series of barbs to make your hose really snuggle on. Any hose clips fitted should then press the hose into the space in between the barbs but that can only happen if they’re flexible enough. To take an extreme example, if you used a pvc or metal pipe then tried to squeeze it with a clip there would be very little compression if any at all, whereas if you stretched a thin balloon over it would fit and grip every single contour.

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,maybe a picture or two perhaps ?

 

[Ldv126]

Thanks Sparkywig & Ozziedog
Definitely still going up the learning curve and this helps! I'd done a bit of thinking, hence the question 'What's the right thing to do, to stop oil hoses coming off?' rather than 'How do I fit hydraulic hoses' , and your message def helps. Maybe it is just a case of Change the hoses to ones that can be compressed properly with a clip?

I know there are the usual oil hose barbs on the engine - let me get some pictures posted of the barbs / hoses / clips etc

Cheers,

 

[mike202]

I would be thinking why are the hoses coming away like that? The pressure of the oil is at less than 4 bar in mine and when warmed up around 3 bar when driving along. I’ve got ordinary jubilee clips on my oil hose and never had a problem. Do you have an oil pressure gauge?

If the hose is the wrong sort it should be an easy fix to change it. Maybe a pic of the hose would help. Does it have any print on the hose to identify it. If you’ve been using that engine since 2003 that’s pretty good Have the problems only recently started?

 

[Ldv126]

I would be thinking why are the hoses coming away like that? The pressure of the oil is at less than 4 bar in mine and when warmed up around 3 bar when driving along. I’ve got ordinary jubilee clips on my oil hose and never had a problem. Do you have an oil pressure gauge?

If the hose is the wrong sort it should be an easy fix to change it. Maybe a pic of the hose would help. Does it have any print on the hose to identify it. If you’ve been using that engine since 2003 that’s pretty good Have the problems only recently started?

Hi Mike,

Oh yes, there is definitely an oi pressure gauge! We've only had this engine for about 7 or 8 years - it's a beauty that was built by Bears Motorsports in Leicestershire - and was fitted by our local aircooled specialist.

It runs about 65 psi (4.48159 bar) when it's cold or on the motorway, and will drop to about 20 when warmed up and idling, so I don't think the pressures are silly.

I think we've had the problems on and off for about 5 years - no rhyme or reason - did about 800 miles around the Lakes/North East a couple of years ago with no problems. But the failure at the end of this summer on the M5 and the comments from the Breakdown man make we want to get it sorted 'properly' - just need to work out what 'properly' means here!

When I get the photos I'll get the writing on the hoses. Just waiting for the rain to stop...

Luke.

 

[K@rlos]

Push on rubber hoses with barbs and clamps are a cheap half arsed affair, leaks and failures are coming.

Go to torques U.K. on eBay as sparkywig has suggested and get the pieces to make your own, use Teflon pipe with anodised fittings and never have to worry about it again. It won’t be cheap but it’s cheaper than a new engine.

AN-8 is fine,

I would be thinking why are the hoses coming away like that? The pressure of the oil is at less than 4 bar in mine and when warmed up around 3 bar when driving along. I’ve got ordinary jubilee clips on my oil hose and never had a problem. Do you have an oil pressure gauge?

If the hose is the wrong sort it should be an easy fix to change it. Maybe a pic of the hose would help. Does it have any print on the hose to identify it. If you’ve been using that engine since 2003 that’s pretty good Have the problems only recently started?

I’d be ripping that lot off and making up some Teflon pipes, you’ve not had a problem yet….

 

[K@rlos]

Rubber hoses with barbs and hose clamps are a cheap and poor solution. Go to torques on eBay as sparky said and convert your set up to Teflon lines with anodised fittings and never worry again, won’t be cheap but a lot cheaper than a new engine.

AN-8 is all you need on an average build, I have AN-10 on mine but my engine turns a lot of rpm so needs the flow.

Can’t go wrong with torques stuff, they have literally everything you’d need. The oil, fuel and nitrous lines on my own bus are all done with their stuff and it’s what I use on customers vws too.

 

[Ldv126]

Rubber hoses with barbs and hose clamps are a cheap and poor solution. Go to torques on eBay as sparky said and convert your set up to Teflon lines with anodised fittings and never worry again, won’t be cheap but a lot cheaper than a new engine.

AN-8 is all you need on an average build, I have AN-10 on mine but my engine turns a lot of rpm so needs the flow.

Can’t go wrong with torques stuff, they have literally everything you’d need. The oil, fuel and nitrous lines on my own bus are all done with their stuff and it’s what I use on customers vws too.

Thanks K@arlos.

It does feel like it's only a matter of time before they pop off again and we don't have one eye on the oil pressure gauge. Definitely happy to spend a bit to protect the engine.

Raises a few questions for me (I'm creeping up the learning curve...) - happy to go read up on it if you suggest some links to articles?

1) AN-8? AN is the type of fitting, and 8 is the diameter? i.e. AN-10 is wider than AN-8?
2) Would I need to replace the existing barbs with something else?
3) Guessing yes, so is replacing them just unscrew the barbs and screw in the replacements, or something more than that?

Cheers,

Luke.

 

[K@rlos]

Thanks K@arlos.

It does feel like it's only a matter of time before they pop off again and we don't have one eye on the oil pressure gauge. Definitely happy to spend a bit to protect the engine.

Raises a few questions for me (I'm creeping up the learning curve...) - happy to go read up on it if you suggest some links to articles?

1) AN-8? AN is the type of fitting, and 8 is the diameter? i.e. AN-10 is wider than AN-8?
2) Would I need to replace the existing barbs with something else?
3) Guessing yes, so is replacing them just unscrew the barbs and screw in the replacements, or something more than that?

Cheers,

Luke.

Luke

AN is the thread type, short for army/navy. Was conceived in ww2 by the American's as a joint standard on plumbing and fittings for use in the 2 services. And yes -8 etc is the size, goes from -2 all the way to -20. If memory serves the internal diameter of AN-8 is 1/2” and AN-10 is 5/8”

Yes, you will need to change the barbs for fittings but they do just unscrew. The Barb threads used on vws are normally 3/8 npt so you’ll need x4 3/8 npt to AN-8 fittings, 2 for engine and 2 for oil filter head. Do you have a remote cooler and a sandwich plate? If so you’ll need to need to find out what threads they are and order the relative fittings. Depending on where the cooler is (if you have 1) you’ll need to get in my experience at least 4m of pipe and the various fittings to go on said pipe. Feel free to message me privately if easier.

Karl

 

[K@rlos]

I thought I had more pics of my oil system but I don’t but you’ll get the idea



AN-10 lines done with black fittings and Teflon pipe with a fabric over braid.

 

[Ldv126]

I thought I had more pics of my oil system but I don’t but you’ll get the idea



AN-10 lines done with black fittings and Teflon pipe with a fabric over braid.

Ahhh - that makes so much sense now! Very clean underneath too..
Yes - I do have an external cooler underneath - so. I can measure all the existing hoses; need 6 AN-8 connectors.
Is there any way to check if the fittings are definitely 3/8 npt before I take them out?

 

[K@rlos]

Ahhh - that makes so much sense now! Very clean underneath too..
Yes - I do have an external cooler underneath - so. I can measure all the existing hoses; need 6 AN-8 connectors.
Is there any way to check if the fittings are definitely 3/8 npt before I take them Have you got any pictures?

Ahhh - that makes so much sense now! Very clean underneath too..
Yes - I do have an external cooler underneath - so. I can measure all the existing hoses; need 6 AN-8 connectors.
Is there any way to check if the fittings are definitely 3/8 npt before I take them out?

Have you got any pictures?

 

[matbow]

Hi Luke, if you would rather talk to some hose specialised and suppliers of hoses and fittings that are close to you in Nottingham I can recommend a couple that I use regularly. Shepherd hydraulics in Alfreton and Carlton hydraulics in Rotherham both have trade counters that you can use and will make up the hoses that you require with the fittings that you want. If you can take the hoses as a pattern they will normally be able to make them up while you wait. Mat

 

[K@rlos]

Here’s some of the oil lines I made up this morning for a customers bus with 1776 which I’ve had in for winter freshen up






All bits from torques U.K, AN-8 Teflon pipe with stainless over braiding & anodised black fittings. Will do the cooler lines tomorrow

 

[davidoft]

Look up and speak to “think automotive”, they will sort you out , they do all oil , coolers fittings etc

 

[dubselector]

Been threatening to upgrade my oil lines to these. Do their 90 degree elbows clear the bottom pulley tinware ok ? I had to "modify" mine to accommodate the elbow which now makes belt changing very challenging. Any part numbers would be useful ?

 

[K@rlos]

Been threatening to upgrade my oil lines to these. Do their 90 degree elbows clear the bottom pulley tinware ok ? I had to "modify" mine to accommodate the elbow which now makes belt changing very challenging. Any part numbers would be useful ?

Use a 90 degree brass fitting and a straight npt- AN adaptor and you don’t need to touch the tinware.

 

[dubselector]

Thanks Karlos,
A nice little winter job to add to the list now 🛠

 

[Ldv126]

Have you got any pictures?

Finally got the pictures done yesterday - ironically, I've been pointed towards Aeroquip, and that's the hoses that are already on!

Do these pictures show enough?

I reckon I've got enough info to get the hoses sorted now.

I just need to work out what size fittings I need for the engine, filter and cooler.